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zoom wrote:Infinite shipments don't come with Uhlans, and the ten or so players I've asked about INFINITE 2 Settler Wagons, in the past, disliked the idea.

Are you sure about that? The infinite cannon shipment comes with 4 uhlans iirc

The only infinite shipments Germany even has IIRC are 5 Jaegers, 300 resources, and 1 Heavy Cannon, so yeah doesn’t seem like infinite shipments actually behave any differently for Germany.

I checked and actually infinite 1 heavy cannon comes with 4 uhlans, so other infinite shipments for germany don't have uhlans just because they are merc cards/age1 cards. This means infinite 2 SW + 2 uhlans would be a consistent change for germany

jgals wrote:

Dsy wrote:Halberdiers are available to Dutch, French, John Black's Mercenaries (Act II: Ice campaign), Portuguese, and Russians.

So far i see only dutch is lacking of musks...

historically for no good reason btw

pretty much all civilisations had batallions of all unit types that can be made in aoe 3. Cuirassiers were not exclusive to the french, uhlans not exclusive to germany, infact germany or prussia, was very famous for their hussars ( deathhead hussars, considered an elite regiment of the prussian army ) etc. Its just purely a design and balance choice.

Yeah if they were going for historical accuracy the civ diversity and unit selection would look like Empire Total War's - not very interesting for a fast-paced 14 civ RTS.

A Prussian Germany not having any standard line infantry (not even by church card) is a weird choice as well. Arguably, the Needle Gunner should rather have been an elite musket unit, while the Jäger should have been the standard German skirmisher.

duckzilla wrote:A Prussian Germany not having any standard line infantry (not even by church card) is a weird choice as well. Arguably, the Needle Gunner should rather have been an elite musket unit, while the Jäger should have been the standard German skirmisher.

Germany had access to musketeers in early plans for the game, but they were removed for balance reasons. When they were still around Ensemble Studios was on the record as stating that their priority was balance and entertainment, not historical accuracy.

Jesus if jaegars were std german skirms. Oh my garja.

That's an interesting idea for a civ bonus. Not seriously suggesting this, but how cool would it be if the Jaeger shipment were removed and replaced with a card unlocking jaeger from the saloon. Like the iron troop card

So incredibly bad you mean?

gamevideo113 wrote:I checked and actually infinite 1 heavy cannon comes with 4 uhlans, so other infinite shipments for germany don't have uhlans just because they are merc cards/age1 cards. This means infinite 2 SW + 2 uhlans would be a consistent change for germany

If there was an age 2 infinite shipment of SW, I would just stay age 2 and keep sending in those swagging wagons, sounds quite strong

So strong that players rarely even send 2 SW? You'd send it twice at max...

Papist wrote:

duckzilla wrote:A Prussian Germany not having any standard line infantry (not even by church card) is a weird choice as well. Arguably, the Needle Gunner should rather have been an elite musket unit, while the Jäger should have been the standard German skirmisher.

Germany had access to musketeers in early plans for the game, but they were removed for balance reasons. When they were still around Ensemble Studios was on the record as stating that their priority was balance and entertainment, not historical accuracy.

In the scenario editor, if you add a MUSKETEER unit to the 8 players, and move those units, then you will see that there is a sound they say, except for player 8 which equals OTTO, because they have Janissary.
Player number 7 is German, and he has sound for MUSKETEER.

5CH3U3R wrote:

Papist wrote:

duckzilla wrote:A Prussian Germany not having any standard line infantry (not even by church card) is a weird choice as well. Arguably, the Needle Gunner should rather have been an elite musket unit, while the Jäger should have been the standard German skirmisher.

Germany had access to musketeers in early plans for the game, but they were removed for balance reasons. When they were still around Ensemble Studios was on the record as stating that their priority was balance and entertainment, not historical accuracy.

In the scenario editor, if you add a MUSKETEER unit to the 8 players, and move those units, then you will see that there is a sound they say, except for player 8 which equals OTTO, because they have Janissary.
Player number 7 is German, and he has sound for MUSKETEER.

Interesting, I didn't know that. They must have removed musks from Germany pretty close to release then.

3sw + 2uhlan is aoe3, anything different isnt.

I think both options are very ugly.

5CH3U3R wrote:India have card 2.35 wood in age 2 + 1 vills = 5,7 vills and nobody says anything;

It's 1.25 wood which is 2.5 villagers. They get the extra villager with every shipment, so it's not unbalanced.

5CH3U3R wrote:France have card 3 CDB in age 1 = 3,75 vills and nobody says anything;

Because French doesn't become overpowered with it. After all, French don't get free stuff with their shipments.

5CH3U3R wrote:Azteca have card 3 vills TEAM in age 2,for 3v3 games = 9 vills and nobody says anything;

We are balancing the game around 1v1, not 3v3. Besides, even in 3v3 the card isn't overpowered, just good.

5CH3U3R wrote:Go Nerf colonial OP German, this civ wins all games in NWC LAN!

Isn't that a good metric for balancing?

The second trickle actually indeed is 2,35 wood.

Again, if we want to nerf the 3+2 shipment, i think the most reasonable way would be making it an infinite 2sw+2uhlans. It has a bigger impact on the german Semi-ff than on any other german strategy, and there aren't any ugly changes like including vills instead of SW/removing uhlans and such.
It's not inconsistent because germany already has an infinite shipment that comes with uhlans in age4.

Perhaps it could be even beneficial for the games where germany has to stay in colonial for a while, for two reasons:
-You can send an economic card for more than 2 times (not sure if necessary but at least you'd have the option);
-It frees up one card slot in the colonial row, making room for something else - Germany does indeed have some good colonial shipments that they often cannot fit in the deck.

scarm wrote:The second trickle actually indeed is 2,35 wood.

Ah, the second one. That's indeed 5,7 villagers, but since every shipments gives a villager, it's not broken?

edeholland wrote:

scarm wrote:The second trickle actually indeed is 2,35 wood.

Ah, the second one. That's indeed 5,7 villagers, but since every shipments gives a villager, it's not broken?

Yeah the India wood trickle really isn't that broken, on a long list of why india is powerful in colonial, thats near the bottom of the list lol

Gamevideo113 recently brought to my attention, the fact that INFINITE shipments do indeed come with the bonus Uhlans (as evidenced by the INFINITE "1 Heavy Cannon" shipment). With this in mind, turning the "3 Settler Wagons" shipment into INFINITE "2 Settler Wagons" is acceptable. It would maintain the consistency of Germans' gatherer shipments being Settler Wagon only. Would this change be preferable to people, I wonder.

Can we not launch a trend of infinite shipments please.

Garja wrote:Can we not launch a trend of infinite shipments please.

Lol

Well some are definitely unnecessary (the whole mace shipment nerf, TWC civs by design all have better unit shipments, therefore 10 maces is fine and so is 9), but i really don't see how a new infinite shipment would be inherently bad if it helps achieving balance.