"3 Settler Wagons" Shipment Discussion

[Riotcoke]

-2 ulhans is clearly a more drastic change, while -1v is hust a shadow nerf.
Bith are impactful balance wise, just the vill one is less intrusive

Why doesn't garja make the patches when it's obvious his word is above all?

[Cometk]

@Sargsyan @GiBthedurrty no shitposts pls or I’ll have Garja escort you out

[Sargsyan]

@Sargsyan @GiBthedurrty no shitposts pls or I’ll have Garja escort you out

ok boss

[GiBthedurrty]

i wont cuck to Es-SO-cucks.net.

[gamevideo113]

Both changes are ugly. They'd make me want to quit playing Germany, if i were a Germans player.

[Riotcoke]

Both changes are ugly. They'd make me want to quit playing Germany, if i were a Germans player.

Just play port like Breeze and complain about every other civ being op yet play the one civ that is completely broken when on the right map.

[gamevideo113]

Both changes are ugly. They'd make me want to quit playing Germany, if i were a Germans player.

Just play port like Breeze and complain about every other civ being op yet play the one civ that is completely broken when on the right map.

Nah sorry i already QS Iro on RE

[deleted_user]

Both changes are ugly. They'd make me want to quit playing Germany, if i were a Germans player.

Just play port like Breeze and complain about every other civ being op yet play the one civ that is completely broken when on the right map.

porto water isn't op, there isn't anyone who can beat me with porto water, if anyone claims so, can do bo5 on a sea map where I play with other civ and win easy.

[Riotcoke]

Both changes are ugly. They'd make me want to quit playing Germany, if i were a Germans player.

Just play port like Breeze and complain about every other civ being op yet play the one civ that is completely broken when on the right map.

Nah sorry i already QS Iro on RE

Wow nice job trying to boost pr in a 14 year old game.

[Sargsyan]

Both changes are ugly. They'd make me want to quit playing Germany, if i were a Germans player.

Just play port like Breeze and complain about every other civ being op yet play the one civ that is completely broken when on the right map.

porto water isn't op, there isn't anyone who can beat me with porto water, if anyone claims so, can do bo5 on a sea map where I play with other civ and win easy.

@Kynesie

[zoom]

@Sargsyan @GiBthedurrty no shitposts pls or I’ll have Garja escort you out

Define, please!

[zoom]

Both changes are ugly. They'd make me want to quit playing Germany, if i were a Germans player.

While off topic, this is important. What about them do you find ugly?

[gamevideo113]

Show hidden quotes

Both changes are ugly. They'd make me want to quit playing Germany, if i were a Germans player.

Just play port like Breeze and complain about every other civ being op yet play the one civ that is completely broken when on the right map.

Nah sorry i already QS Iro on RE

Wow nice job trying to boost pr in a 14 year old game.

Not possible. I am already PR 50. Can't boost it any higher.

[zoom]

DID ZOI DELETE "ZOIBOYCHILL XD?"

Personally!

[zoom]

I am against all eco nerfs in EP

Ah, the anti-cuckoo/hazza etc.

[zoom]

my posts are also deleted, such an atrocity towards our freedom of speech

Genocide, one might say.

[Kynesie]

Show hidden quotes

Both changes are ugly. They'd make me want to quit playing Germany, if i were a Germans player.

Just play port like Breeze and complain about every other civ being op yet play the one civ that is completely broken when on the right map.

porto water isn't op, there isn't anyone who can beat me with porto water, if anyone claims so, can do bo5 on a sea map where I play with other civ and win easy.

@Kynesie

I want to play this as anti water player

[[Armag] diarouga]

Both changes are ugly. They'd make me want to quit playing Germany, if i were a Germans player.

Just play port like Breeze and complain about every other civ being op yet play the one civ that is completely broken when on the right map.

porto water isn't op, there isn't anyone who can beat me with porto water, if anyone claims so, can do bo5 on a sea map where I play with other civ and win easy.

rougarouga

[gamevideo113]

Both changes are ugly. They'd make me want to quit playing Germany, if i were a Germans player.

While off topic, this is important. What about them do you find ugly?

Because both create a substantial inconsistency with the rest of the german shipments. Germans get uhlans or extra mercs from their shipments, making just one exception for one of the most used and loved shipments of germany looks like a lazy way to solve a problem that's probably possible to solve in other ways. I'd much prefer to see uhlans removed from all settler wagon shipments then, removing them from just one shipment looks and feels wrong. Speaking about standardization...

[zoom]

-2 ulhans is clearly a more drastic change, while -1v is hust a shadow nerf.
Bith are impactful balance wise, just the vill one is less intrusive

I would agree, except you could opt for sending 2SW+2 Uhlans, over 3SW, if you wish to avoid such intrusion, in game. Wouldn't that player choice be a beautiful thing?

Are you confident that 3SW would not be viable, over 2SW+2U? It could be a good thing, to have the strategical option, rather than a broken shipment.

[zoom]

I like neither change but would pick -1v over -2 cav.
Maybe you can leave Germans alone if exiled prince is being nerfed further?

Absolutely!

Maybe you can explain why you are so keen on not balancing a broken and ugly shipment, after reading the OP. Any valid arguments at all would contribute to making me less keen on balancing a broken and ugly shipment. It's going to be a hard sell, but anything is more than nothing.

[zoom]

There isn't any inconsistency tbh. Germany just happens to get sw shipments which are stronger than vil shipments, both discovery 2 sw and colonial 3 sw. Then, discovery shipments don't have any free uhlans (2 sw included), and colonial shipments have 2 free uhlans (3 sw included). If you want to keep the consistency, well, you simply shouldn't touch the current 3 sw shipment.

Then again, at this point, I doubt consistency is really our main concern. As a german player, I'd rather have 2sw +1v + 2 uhlans than 3 sw + 0 uhlan. It's just never really worth trading 1v for 2 uhlans. I don't know if it would be enough of a nerf, would need testing.
It's definitely a smoother change than 3 sw + 0 uhlan though, because that one would change the way germany is played, most likely making 700w the preferred standard first shipment. Not getting the early 2 uhlans to harass your opponent, and then having 5 uhlans instead of 7, just makes the early colonial so much weaker, while having one less vil doesn't really matter early on. And if you're not starting with cav it's the same story, probably even worse when you go for a naked ff.

I disagree. In practice, I find that view illogical. It's rationalizing to avoid the fact of the matter. I'm sure you understand that the civilization would be underpowered with a 3S shipment. Germans doesn't "just happen" to get stronger SW shipments. For the Discovery shipment, this is justified, albeit ugly as fuck, since no other shipment got an extra S, but for 3SW, it means a further mess, being the only shipment of the entire civilization with double bonuses, while being a balance issue, of its own.

It seems a lot of people are mistaking "consistency" for "currency", failing to accept that 3sw+2uhlans is ugly, simply because they are used to it, assuming that the current norm is the proper state.

Good point about the 2 Uhlans. Given the existance of 2SW+2Uhlans, my question is this: Are you confident that 3SW would not be viable, over 2SW+2U? It could be a good thing, to have the strategical option, rather than a broken shipment.

[Djigit]

Weirdly enough, I'd like this shipment to remain as it is.

[zoom]

Weirdly enough, I'd like this shipment to remain as it is.

Maybe you can explain why you are so keen on not balancing a broken and ugly shipment, after reading the OP. Any valid arguments at all would contribute to making me less keen on balancing a broken and ugly shipment. It's going to be a hard sell, but anything is more than nothing.

[charlemango]

I like neither change but would pick -1v over -2 cav.
Maybe you can leave Germans alone if exiled prince is being nerfed further?

Absolutely!

Maybe you can explain why you are so keen on not balancing a broken and ugly shipment, after reading the OP. Any valid arguments at all would contribute to making me less keen on balancing a broken and ugly shipment. It's going to be a hard sell, but anything is more than nothing.

Can you provide evidence that Germany is "OP" on net? (Win statistics in NWC, perhaps?) From what I am hearing, Germany is only OP on one crate start on one type of map (200w start on TP map). However, lots of civs are broken on certain maps, but this doesn't justify a nerf to the whole civilization. For example, Ottoman on 5 tp maps or Port on heavy whale maps. Nobody wants to nerf Otto or Port just cause of one type of map.