Thoughts on plantation buff?

United States of America charlemango
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Thoughts on plantation buff?

Post by charlemango »

Scenario: you are playing a hard-fought, close game that's closing in on the 20 minute mark. Coin mines running out, time to switch to plantations! Except you are playing against a TAD opponent who spams OP 400w rice paddies that require 0 macro since they double as mills. You struggle to get even 2 plantations up since they cost 800w each. GG.

What do you guys think of making plantations around 600w? Of course, the big negative is that it promotes turtling and maybe buffs the lategame of some civs that dominate lategame anyways (Port, maybe Germany buffed too much). Could be accompanied by a wall nerf to compensate, maybe reduce bastion by 1000hp?
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Re: Thoughts on plantation buff?

Post by Kawapasaka »

Did you just watch me vs Dennis on his stream :hmm:
Anyway I agree, half-price age 2 plantations are a bit of a silly addition to the endless list of TAD civs' free shit.
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Re: Thoughts on plantation buff?

Post by charlemango »

Kawapasaka wrote:Did you just watch me vs Dennis on his stream :hmm:
Anyway I agree, half-price age 2 plantations are just silly addition to the endless list of TAD civs' free shit.


Haha, yes I did :biggrin: . I've been on board with this for a while though.
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Holy See Imperial Noob
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Re: Thoughts on plantation buff?

Post by Imperial Noob »

Just make rice paddies cost 600w
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Great Britain Riotcoke
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Re: Thoughts on plantation buff?

Post by Riotcoke »

Just make them 400 wood and restrict rice paddies switching to coin in age 2.
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Australia Hazza54321
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Re: Thoughts on plantation buff?

Post by Hazza54321 »

I like the dynamic of the (vet)bow pike/native usage in late age 2/3 so i like them being expensive as it favours map control. I do think paddies should be at least 500 though.
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Re: Thoughts on plantation buff?

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Post by deleted_user0 »

Another nerf for japs? :D

"Endless list of TAD free shit".
People don't seem understand that TAD civs are SLOW (india/japan) have slower gathering rates to make vills, no 3v cards. They need all the "free shit" to compensate the fact that they are always behind nilla civs in early game. It's often about survival till mid-game until TAD civs start to finally perform.

I have always argued that the point of sepoy rush is not trying to make any "significant damage". It's actually impossible because any vanilla civ can defend it extremely easy if not going naked ff etc. The idea is to slow down the game, decay the resources, trade even somewhat equal to prevent your opponent from aging.

Balance-wise, india and china are reasonably balanced at the moment. Japan in my opinion a little bit too weak. No need for further nerfs.
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Re: Thoughts on plantation buff?

Post by Djigit »

Allow nilla vills to build Town Centers too :pop:
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Re: Thoughts on plantation buff?

Post by Kawapasaka »

somppukunkku wrote:It's often about survival till mid-game until TAD civs start to finally perform.


Well yeah, that's what I was thinking - mills/plants only come into the picture (late?) mid-game when TAD civs are already performing great (and have so many ways of softening the impact of no natural res already), so paddies being that much better seems needless. Just a compounding bonus on top of how good the civs are already in that scrappy transition period. I don't think it's a huge issue either way though.
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Re: Thoughts on plantation buff?

Post by zoom »

somppukunkku wrote:Another nerf for japs? :D

"Endless list of TAD free shit".
People don't seem understand that TAD civs are SLOW (india/japan) have slower gathering rates to make vills, no 3v cards. They need all the "free shit" to compensate the fact that they are always behind nilla civs in early game. It's often about survival till mid-game until TAD civs start to finally perform.

I have always argued that the point of sepoy rush is not trying to make any "significant damage". It's actually impossible because any vanilla civ can defend it extremely easy if not going naked ff etc. The idea is to slow down the game, decay the resources, trade even somewhat equal to prevent your opponent from aging.

Balance-wise, india and china are reasonably balanced at the moment. Japan in my opinion a little bit too weak. No need for further nerfs.
This. I will poll 600w Plantations with players, during the beta, though.
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United States of America GiBthedurrty
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Re: Thoughts on plantation buff?

Post by GiBthedurrty »

Nerf the builds nobody does wth japan
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Re: Thoughts on plantation buff?

Post by Sargsyan »

600w is too much goddamnit
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Re: Thoughts on plantation buff?

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Post by Mitoe »

Plantation buff is an Iro nerf grrr!
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Italy Garja
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Re: Thoughts on plantation buff?

Post by Garja »

if anything 600w rice paddies
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Re: Thoughts on plantation buff?

Post by Sargsyan »

Garja wrote:if anything 600w rice paddies

500, take it or leave it
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United States of America GiBthedurrty
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Re: Thoughts on plantation buff?

Post by GiBthedurrty »

#FREELONEWOLF
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Hungary Dsy
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Re: Thoughts on plantation buff?

Post by Dsy »

I've seen only cheaters building rice paddies.
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Re: Thoughts on plantation buff?

Post by aligator92 »

yes, please make plantations between 400w and 600w. 800 is a fucking joke
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Re: Thoughts on plantation buff?

Post by jgals »

its called land grab...
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Re: Thoughts on plantation buff?

Post by Shikari »

Kawapasaka wrote:Did you just watch me vs Dennis on his stream :hmm:
Anyway I agree, half-price age 2 plantations are a bit of a silly addition to the endless list of TAD civs' free shit.

Ikr. Consulate free armies from time to time plus passive bonuses of them.
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Re: Thoughts on plantation buff?

Post by pecelot »

somppukunkku wrote:Another nerf for japs? :D

"Endless list of TAD free shit".
People don't seem understand that TAD civs are SLOW (india/japan) have slower gathering rates to make vills, no 3v cards. They need all the "free shit" to compensate the fact that they are always behind nilla civs in early game. It's often about survival till mid-game until TAD civs start to finally perform.

I have always argued that the point of sepoy rush is not trying to make any "significant damage". It's actually impossible because any vanilla civ can defend it extremely easy if not going naked ff etc. The idea is to slow down the game, decay the resources, trade even somewhat equal to prevent your opponent from aging.

Balance-wise, india and china are reasonably balanced at the moment. Japan in my opinion a little bit too weak. No need for further nerfs.

yeah, but rice paddies don't affect early game at all, and past age 3 you indeed get all that free TAD stuff, consulate, 2 TCs built by 8 vills, 400-w mixtures of mills and plantations et cetera
this change has been long coming, about time we finally acted on that! either 600-w plantations or 600-w rice paddies — I like the former more as it's more of a buff to Europeans than nerf to Asians, however, the latter also makes sense, considering regular mills cost 400 w, and here you have the aforementioned hybrid that you can switch any time to what resources you'd like to gather
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Brazil Luciofrancosi
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Re: Thoughts on plantation buff?

Post by Luciofrancosi »

I like the idea of the plantation buff!! Also making rice paddies a bit more expensive is probably better since u can choose which resource to gather from!!

One thing to consider though is the fact that euro civs have access to factories which is a huge deal!!
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Re: Thoughts on plantation buff?

Post by Peachrocks »

Yeah 600w plantations me thinks. However keep in mind that Rice paddies on coin gather at 0.34 base. Plantations gather at 0.5. Though the villagers don’t move around and bump into each other if you’ve got more than 6 or 7. Mills are also slightly faster too but maybe it cancels out with all the moving.
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Re: Thoughts on plantation buff?

Post by dansil92 »

Iirc when the moving and bumping get accounted for, mills, farms and patties all generate the same res per second
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