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France [Armag] diarouga
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20 Jul 2019, 09:15

India : The civ feels strong right now. However, I think that without the cease fire abuse, India would be fine (the gurkha/zam composition is good, and you could still go sepoy/mahout/urumi). Furthermore, cease fire was meant to be a defensive ability, and it shouldn't be used agressively.
The cease fire only lasts 5-10 seconds, and the units can't move during the cease fire.

China : The civ is fine.

Japan : The civ is too vulnerable to artillery. A yabusame buff makes sense.

Yabusame +10 HP.

Aztecs : Aztec is one of the weakest civs in the game right now, I suggest :

Arrow knights only cost 1 population
Pumas don't have the siege unit tag anymore
Coyotes have +5 HP


Iroquois : Iro is very strong, the civ probably won't get nerfed as most players don't understand this yet, still I suggest.

WC aura nerfed to 8%

Sioux : I think the Dog Soldier timing is too strong. Thus, I would either nerf that timing by nerfing their eco, or nerf dog soldiers.

The big button gives one DS every 4 minutes.

Spain : The civ is quite weak (although I think it's better than what people think). I would like them to be as good as nilla spain.

You need less exp to get your shipments

Dutch : The civ is fine from what I've seen.

Otto : 20 range abus gun doesn't make sense. Right now, abus are too good in fortress. I'd like to see this removed.

+2 range for abus moved to industrial.
5abus changed to 6abus.

France : I think that France is a bit weak, thus I think we should unnerf it a bit.

CDB cost changed to 120f.

Germany : The civ is one of the strongest civs. One of the issues is the jaeger shipment, which should be nerfed.

13 jaegers nerfed to 12 jaegers.

Port : The civ is still weak in 1v1 on "normal" maps. A big buff would make it op on water/big TP maps, so we have to be careful.

2 organ guns shipment changed to 3 organ guns for 200 (or 300) coin.
Give cassadors the nilla stats.


Brit : The civ is good, but doesn't really deserve another nerf.

Russia : The civ is a bit too strong at the moment. I'd revert the musk buff.

Undo the musk buff.

General : bow units don't miss anymore
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Finland somppukunkku
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20 Jul 2019, 09:24

How useless a 5 sec cease fire without movement would be lmao. Nobody would ever go taj mahal again.
If you want to remove aggro, make it longer lol.

Otherwise sounds quite reasonable.

Also, I can't really see the logic of france being buffed and japan not when obviously fre>japs.
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Australia Kawapasaka
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20 Jul 2019, 09:28

Agree with somppu. Consider the bonuses that China and Japan get with their age 3 wonders. How does a 5 second no-movement ceasefire measure up to that? Sounds utterly inconsequential.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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20 Jul 2019, 09:28

somppukunkku wrote:How useless a 5 sec cease fire without movement would be lmao. Nobody would ever go taj mahal again.
If you want to remove aggro, make it longer lol.

Otherwise sounds quite reasonable.

It would allow you to defend raids, which is what cease fire is supposed to do. I would be fine with cease fire removed actually, but that's not an option.
Making it longer would only make it stronger by the way.

Also, I can't really see the logic of france being buffed and japan not when obviously fre>japs.

I'm not sure about this. Japan is slightly underrated. Also I don't really see a way to buff japan while not making the civ op.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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20 Jul 2019, 09:29

Kawapasaka wrote:Agree with somppu. Consider the bonuses that China and Japan get with their age 3 wonders. How does a 5 second no-movement ceasefire measure up to that?

You still get 800c. If the issue is the bonus, we could remove cease fire and give 4vills instead.
Germany amiggo1999
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20 Jul 2019, 09:30

unit's can't move during cease fire? ahaha, that really is stupid.
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Finland somppukunkku
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20 Jul 2019, 09:32

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
somppukunkku wrote:How useless a 5 sec cease fire without movement would be lmao. Nobody would ever go taj mahal again.
If you want to remove aggro, make it longer lol.

Otherwise sounds quite reasonable.

It would allow you to defend raids, which is what cease fire is supposed to do. I would be fine with cease fire removed actually, but that's not an option.
Making it longer would only make it stronger by the way.

It would buff defensive advantage "how it's meant to be" but definitely nerf offensive advantage.
The opponent is in the end the one who decides which direction the deathball moves. More time to find cover, more time to move closer your barracks/add more army etc.

Why do you assume that Cease fire is an ability vs raids? Why couldn't it be an ability that saves your army after you see that the fight is not going your way. Latter sounds more realistic "what they meant".
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France [Armag] diarouga
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20 Jul 2019, 09:32

amiggo1999 wrote:unit's can't move during cease fire? ahaha, that really is stupid.

Units going in melee during cease fire is stupid tbh. What's the logic? You make peace with your opponent, then you melee his army and rape it once the cease fire is over?
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Finland somppukunkku
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20 Jul 2019, 09:33

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
amiggo1999 wrote:unit's can't move during cease fire? ahaha, that really is stupid.

Units going in melee during cease fire is stupid tbh. What's the logic? You make peace with your opponent, then you melee his army and rape it once the cease fire is over?

Imagine 20 hussars raping your last 30 gurkhas. Oh yea, let's make a peace for a few seconds sucking each others dick but then we kill you for sure!

(if you want to use the "realistic" argument)
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France [Armag] diarouga
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20 Jul 2019, 09:34

somppukunkku wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
somppukunkku wrote:How useless a 5 sec cease fire without movement would be lmao. Nobody would ever go taj mahal again.
If you want to remove aggro, make it longer lol.

Otherwise sounds quite reasonable.

It would allow you to defend raids, which is what cease fire is supposed to do. I would be fine with cease fire removed actually, but that's not an option.
Making it longer would only make it stronger by the way.

It would buff defensive advantage "how it's meant to be" but definitely nerf offensive advantage.
The opponent is in the end the one who decides which direction the deathball moves. More time to find cover, more time to move closer your barracks/add more army etc.

Why do you assume that Cease fire is an ability vs raids? Why couldn't it be an ability that saves your army after you see that the fight is not going your way. Latter sounds more realistic "what they meant".

Longer cease fire is a buff, it's quite obvious. :hmm:
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Finland somppukunkku
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20 Jul 2019, 09:35

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
somppukunkku wrote:
Show hidden quotes

It would buff defensive advantage "how it's meant to be" but definitely nerf offensive advantage.
The opponent is in the end the one who decides which direction the deathball moves. More time to find cover, more time to move closer your barracks/add more army etc.

Why do you assume that Cease fire is an ability vs raids? Why couldn't it be an ability that saves your army after you see that the fight is not going your way. Latter sounds more realistic "what they meant".

Longer cease fire is a buff, it's quite obvious. :hmm:

It's not. The way you think explains though why you used it so terrible in tournament games.
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Argentina Riotcoke
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20 Jul 2019, 09:35

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
amiggo1999 wrote:unit's can't move during cease fire? ahaha, that really is stupid.

Units going in melee during cease fire is stupid tbh. What's the logic? You make peace with your opponent, then you melee his army and rape it once the cease fire is over?

Urumi also can't go into melee :)
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Argentina Riotcoke
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20 Jul 2019, 09:36

Also if you don't make it longer, at least give it a delay to occur that the other player is aware of, i.e give 5 seconds before so the other player knows it's going to happen, one of the reasons it's so good now is that it's instant.
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Finland somppukunkku
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20 Jul 2019, 09:38

Realistically, the best cease fire ideas have been

1) 5 second countdown
2) Making it longer.

Others have been really dumb. Of course, the outside option of doing nothing would be fine too and people just learn to play.
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French Southern Territories kevinitalien
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20 Jul 2019, 09:38

a cease-fire that costs resources would be another solution imo
Australia Kawapasaka
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20 Jul 2019, 09:38

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Kawapasaka wrote:Agree with somppu. Consider the bonuses that China and Japan get with their age 3 wonders. How does a 5 second no-movement ceasefire measure up to that?

You still get 800c. If the issue is the bonus, we could remove cease fire and give 4vills instead.


Sure, but Japan gets 6 Yumi which isn't that far behind the crates in value as well as being instant military - and that's on top of a wonder that provides excellent military buffs. And China gets 8 skirms on top of their wonder that shits out artillery every few minutes.
Anyway, point is that change would make the wonder essentially non-viable especially if you're going to keep the cooldown the same. Considering the amount of Asian wonders that are already barely ever used I don't think it's a good idea to decrease variety like that.
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20 Jul 2019, 09:39

kevinitalien wrote:a cease-fire that costs resources would be another solution imo

How about a Porcelain Tower that drains your resources?
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Argentina Riotcoke
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20 Jul 2019, 09:39

somppukunkku wrote:Realistically, the best cease fire ideas have been

1) 5 second countdown
2) Making it longer.

Others have been really dumb. Of course, the outside option of doing nothing would be fine too and people just learn to play.

Honestly it can be countered, as tabben showed, people just haven't adapted to it I feel as it's relatively new to the meta.
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20 Jul 2019, 09:42

It can also be countered with a 5w wall.
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20 Jul 2019, 09:44

somppukunkku wrote:It can also be countered with a 5w wall.

Yes as i said before though, unless you scout the taj and not having a count down it's pretty hard to know when or if it's coming. Therefore pushing into india can be a relatively tricky thing to do because of it.
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20 Jul 2019, 09:44

Also I kind of like the organ gun idea - but isn't the primary issue that they get destroyed by falcs? Would an extra organ prevent that?
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20 Jul 2019, 09:45

Kawapasaka wrote:Also I kind of like the organ gun idea - but isn't the primary issue that they get destroyed by falcs? I'm not sure if an extra organ prevents that.

Organ guns are meant to be anti-inf not all round artillery. They're better than falcs vs inf but worse vs buildings and other artillery, that's their design. Also maybe don't change the two organ shipment, just add a merc type shipment that is three organs for 300 coin.
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20 Jul 2019, 09:48

Riotcoke wrote:
Kawapasaka wrote:Also I kind of like the organ gun idea - but isn't the primary issue that they get destroyed by falcs? I'm not sure if an extra organ prevents that.

Organ guns are meant to be anti-inf not all round artillery. They're better than falcs vs inf but worse vs buildings and other artillery, that's their design. Also maybe don't change the two organ shipment, just add a merc type shipment that is three organs for 300 coin.


Yeah I get the design but considering the primary weakness of the shipment still remains I don't see how making it a little better in terms of raw value is a relevant buff to the civ.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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20 Jul 2019, 09:49

Riotcoke wrote:
somppukunkku wrote:Realistically, the best cease fire ideas have been

1) 5 second countdown
2) Making it longer.

Others have been really dumb. Of course, the outside option of doing nothing would be fine too and people just learn to play.

Honestly it can be countered, as tabben showed, people just haven't adapted to it I feel as it's relatively new to the meta.

It can be countered, that's not the issue. The issue is that we don't want to see a full wall meta as it would just make the game boring.
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France [Armag] diarouga
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20 Jul 2019, 09:50

Kawapasaka wrote:Also I kind of like the organ gun idea - but isn't the primary issue that they get destroyed by falcs? Would an extra organ prevent that?

Port would still be very vulnerable to falcs, and find a way to counter the 2 falc shipment. However, it's a bit unfair to have a mediocre 2 organ shipment when your opponent has 2 falcs. It would still help.

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