EP 7 suggestions

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Great Britain Riotcoke
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by Riotcoke »

Kawapasaka wrote:
Riotcoke wrote:
Kawapasaka wrote:Also I kind of like the organ gun idea - but isn't the primary issue that they get destroyed by falcs? I'm not sure if an extra organ prevents that.

Organ guns are meant to be anti-inf not all round artillery. They're better than falcs vs inf but worse vs buildings and other artillery, that's their design. Also maybe don't change the two organ shipment, just add a merc type shipment that is three organs for 300 coin.


Yeah I get the design but considering the primary weakness of the shipment still remains I don't see how making it a little better in terms of raw value is a relevant buff to the civ.

They're also cheaper, a raw buff simply isn't needed. It's a negative to the civ that you basically have to build an artillery founder to get proper anti-art. However seeing as how port is played in the current meta of going Industrial i don't think that warrants a buff to organ guns other than a change or addition of a shipment.
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French Southern Territories kevinitalien
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by kevinitalien »

somppukunkku wrote:
kevinitalien wrote:a cease-fire that costs resources would be another solution imo

How about a Porcelain Tower that drains your resources?

a ceasefire that costs 200 food is an option that can be explored, if not why is it a bad idea?
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by ClaiomhSolais »

How about giving organ guns 4.5 speed? I think it would suit their design as a lighter, cheaper, more specialized version of a falconet, just like caƧadors are a faster, cheaper, more specialized version of a skirmisher, and it would help them to run away from falconets.
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by Hazza54321 »

its super weird but i 100% agree with all those changes.

Although i would buff japan and a small one to aztecs
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

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Post by n0el »

somppukunkku wrote:
kevinitalien wrote:a cease-fire that costs resources would be another solution imo

How about a Porcelain Tower that drains your resources?

If it gives me 800c and letā€™s me get my death ball on top of my opponents army then sure.
mad cuz bad
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Hazza54321 wrote:its super weird but i 100% agree with all those changes.

Although i would buff japan and a small one to aztecs

Oops, forgot about Aztecs, I added it.
How would you buff Japan?
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by Riotcoke »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:its super weird but i 100% agree with all those changes.

Although i would buff japan and a small one to aztecs

Oops, forgot about Aztecs, I added it.
How would you buff Japan?

Increase the amount of berries in the orchards is a good idea i think.
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France Kynesie
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by Kynesie »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:its super weird but i 100% agree with all those changes.

Although i would buff japan and a small one to aztecs

Oops, forgot about Aztecs, I added it.
How would you buff Japan?

Yabusame ? Jap can t really deal with canon culv.
Btw look at old nerf before add a rdm buff
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

I'd revert the pavillon nerf, but I don't think it's going to happen unfortunately. Yabusame buff would be nice I agree. Let's say +10 HP :P
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by princeofcarthage »

There is no logic in claiming ceasefire should be only used defensively and not aggressively.
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by Hazza54321 »

yeah i think 6000f in each orchard is good. Each time i need to send orchards i get pushed it feels like
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

princeofcarthage wrote:There is no logic in claiming ceasefire should be only used defensively and not aggressively.

I guess we don't have the same logic, but 80% of the top players I've talked to think that cease fire should be a defensive ability.
It's quite logic, when you make peace with your ennemy, you should walk your army in his army and get to melee for free. This is absurd in a RTS game.
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by Riotcoke »

Would be nice for japan to get a buff to the Yoijimbo card honestly, it's such a nice niche unit that gets hardly any use because of how shit a 4 card shipment of them is.
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by Djigit »

Yabusame are fine as they are right now and 6000f orchard is an insane buff lol
Toshogu should grant more export. Colonial is where the problem lies.
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by princeofcarthage »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
princeofcarthage wrote:There is no logic in claiming ceasefire should be only used defensively and not aggressively.

I guess we don't have the same logic, but 80% of the top players I've talked to think that cease fire should be a defensive ability.
It's quite logic, when you make peace with your ennemy, you should walk your army in his army and get to melee for free. This is absurd in a RTS game.

You could just walk away you know to a more defensive or advantageous position, ceasefire has a cool down period of 7 and half minutes, its not like you can do it anytime you wish. Most of the tournament games you know before hand what map it is, which player you are fighting, and that he is playing India. Despite that if you can't prepare or learn to fight against it then I seriously doubt your credibility despite agreeing with most of the suggestions. The most obvious answer is to try something different than standard meta, you can't keep nerfing civs or strats to fit your standard style of play.
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by Hazza54321 »

lol
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by Riotcoke »

princeofcarthage wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
princeofcarthage wrote:There is no logic in claiming ceasefire should be only used defensively and not aggressively.

I guess we don't have the same logic, but 80% of the top players I've talked to think that cease fire should be a defensive ability.
It's quite logic, when you make peace with your ennemy, you should walk your army in his army and get to melee for free. This is absurd in a RTS game.

You could just walk away you know to a more defensive or advantageous position, ceasefire has a cool down period of 7 and half minutes, its not like you can do it anytime you wish. Most of the tournament games you know before hand what map it is, which player you are fighting, and that he is playing India. Despite that if you can't prepare or learn to fight against it then I seriously doubt your credibility despite agreeing with most of the suggestions. The most obvious answer is to try something different than standard meta, you can't keep nerfing civs or strats to fit your standard style of play.

Honestly in regards to this, freezing your army is retarded, but if you want the same effect something that might work is to give all units a huge debuff to their stats right after the ceasefire, on both sides, so you won't lose units due to meme urumi being shoved into a small space.
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

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Post by Hazza54321 »

no shit people are gonna try to reach a more favourable position, does that ever happen?
the cooldown is irrelevant in 1v1 as its usually who can get the better trade of a fight that snowballs into a victory, at lower levels this is less important.
Sure u can prepare for it, but not many compositions have a chance vs that sort of army.
Ceasefire abilities have no place in a timing based rts game, especially the way its being abused now.
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

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Post by Kaiserklein »

I don't think cease fire is necessarily too strong, but it's insanely stupid. It's like "oh I'm shit so i lose all vils but it's fine I can cease fire and save them" or "oh I'm dumb and use the wrong unit composition but it's fine I can cease fire and walk on top of my opponent's army"
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by Goodspeed »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:India :
The cease fire only lasts 5-10 seconds, and the units can't move during the cease fire.
Nerfing it into irrelevance is not the way to go. Imo if possible it should be replaced with something else entirely, or find a nerf that prevents the abuse but still makes it useful.
[u]Aztecs :
Arrow knights only cost 1 population
Pumas don't have the siege unit tag anymore
Coyotes have +5 HP
Agree with these conceptually, but it has the potential to be too much and I think a more elegant way to change Aztecs might be to buff their politicians (except fast age).
Sioux :
Remove the teepee gathering ability.
Or
Dog Soldiers : -30 HP
I still think the gather rate aura is a good change but it, or Sioux in general, still needs some work before it can shine.
Along with nerfing teepee gather rate aura I might have looked into buffing the (almost) never used baby dance to give Sioux, which is now a very timing-oriented civ, better booming options. It would help Aztec too. Maybe Iro would need a small nerf somewhere to compensate, but I don't see them using baby dance much regardless.

Rather than nerfing the unit, the dog soldier big button should be nerfed.
Spain :
You need less exp to get your shipments
Agree with this one. Can hardly go wrong buffing a civ bonus if the civ is weak.
Otto :
+2 range for abus moved to industrial.
5abus changed to 6abus.
Abus are supposed to feel dominant against other skirms. As compensation, they don't do as well against goons. If we really need to nerf them, which I don't think we do, I would sooner look at giving them negative multipliers against cav.
France :
CDB cost changed to 120f.
Can't hurt I suppose
Germany :
13 jaegers nerfed to 12 jaegers.
Also can't hurt
Port :
2 organ guns shipment changed to 3 organ guns for 200 (or 300) coin.
Cassadores feel underwhelming. I don't know what ES was thinking changing cass into a reskinned skirmisher but for the love of god please restore them to former nilla glory.
Russia : Same.
Russia does feel a little strong imo. I think the musk buff was not needed and should be undone.
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

princeofcarthage wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
princeofcarthage wrote:There is no logic in claiming ceasefire should be only used defensively and not aggressively.

I guess we don't have the same logic, but 80% of the top players I've talked to think that cease fire should be a defensive ability.
It's quite logic, when you make peace with your ennemy, you should walk your army in his army and get to melee for free. This is absurd in a RTS game.

You could just walk away you know to a more defensive or advantageous position, ceasefire has a cool down period of 7 and half minutes, its not like you can do it anytime you wish. Most of the tournament games you know before hand what map it is, which player you are fighting, and that he is playing India. Despite that if you can't prepare or learn to fight against it then I seriously doubt your credibility despite agreeing with most of the suggestions. The most obvious answer is to try something different than standard meta, you can't keep nerfing civs or strats to fit your standard style of play.

Sure you can wall all the map to deal with cease fire, I know you can lol, so please don't try to teach me the game. My point is that it's absurd. Do we really want to watch games where one player has to wall the whole map?
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by Riotcoke »

If you remove the siege tag from Pumas, maybe reduce their siege to 40 or something. They're so much better than normal pikes in siege to the extent it's pretty laughable, all for a tiny amount in cost when you account for the villager seconds for 40 wood over 50 coin and 10 food.
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

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Post by amiggo1999 »

I think removing would be better than nerfing it. But giving the wonder another benefit as replacement is necessary then.
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by bwinner »

6 abus would still be a bad card that would by no way compensate this huge nerf (that is the most stupide change ever btw). If you rly want to nerf abus in late age 3 (which doesn't make sens once again), you need to compensate a lot in middle age 3. So 7 Abus ist needed and another thing could be to reduce foundry cost. But in anyway, I think we will have to make only falcs and never abus which is just dumb.
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by Hazza54321 »

i dont think otto need a buff late age 3, with jan combat being buffed and better eco age 3

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