EP 7 suggestions

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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by Riotcoke »

bwinner wrote:6 abus would still be a bad card that would by no way compensate this huge nerf (that is the most stupide change ever btw). If you rly want to nerf abus in late age 3 (which doesn't make sens once again), you need to compensate a lot in middle age 3. So 7 Abus ist needed and another thing could be to reduce foundry cost. But in anyway, I think we will have to make only falcs and never abus which is just dumb.

Unit shipments are meant to be less than crate shipments for resources for obvious reasons, if you make it 7 abus that'd be 1050 resources which is insane. 8 Skirm is 920 resources which fits nicely with 6 abus honestly which would be 900 resources flat. Also i still think a nice nerf to abus would be to have a 0.75 multiplier vs ranged inf to make them not so dominant over skirms.
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

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Riotcoke wrote:
bwinner wrote:6 abus would still be a bad card that would by no way compensate this huge nerf (that is the most stupide change ever btw). If you rly want to nerf abus in late age 3 (which doesn't make sens once again), you need to compensate a lot in middle age 3. So 7 Abus ist needed and another thing could be to reduce foundry cost. But in anyway, I think we will have to make only falcs and never abus which is just dumb.

Unit shipments are meant to be less than crate shipments for resources for obvious reasons, if you make it 7 abus that'd be 1050 resources which is insane. 8 Skirm is 920 resources which fits nicely with 6 abus honestly which would be 900 resources flat. Also i still think a nice nerf to abus would be to have a 0.75 multiplier vs ranged inf to make them not so dominant over skirms.

Skirm are veterant and need no foundry but a rax though. Which largely make it for the cost. Units that aren't shadow teched like huss are generally 1k shippment (5huss).
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

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bwinner wrote:
Riotcoke wrote:
bwinner wrote:6 abus would still be a bad card that would by no way compensate this huge nerf (that is the most stupide change ever btw). If you rly want to nerf abus in late age 3 (which doesn't make sens once again), you need to compensate a lot in middle age 3. So 7 Abus ist needed and another thing could be to reduce foundry cost. But in anyway, I think we will have to make only falcs and never abus which is just dumb.

Unit shipments are meant to be less than crate shipments for resources for obvious reasons, if you make it 7 abus that'd be 1050 resources which is insane. 8 Skirm is 920 resources which fits nicely with 6 abus honestly which would be 900 resources flat. Also i still think a nice nerf to abus would be to have a 0.75 multiplier vs ranged inf to make them not so dominant over skirms.

Skirm are veterant and need no foundry but a rax though. Which largely make it for the cost. Units that aren't shadow teched like huss are generally 1k shippment (5huss).

You also forget that units that are built in specialist buildings have cards that are worth less, which is a reason why abus shouldn't have a 7 card shipment as well, complaining about shadow tech is also a moot point, would you rather have abus age 2 or pay 400 to upgrade an already op unit? So basically 7 abus would be a far better shipment than 9 skirm even though they would roughly be the same cost seeing as you won't have to build an artillery foundry to have the most op basic inf unit in the game.
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

The cease fire only lasts 5-10 seconds, and the units can't move during the cease fire.
Nerfing it into irrelevance is not the way to go. Imo if possible it should be replaced with something else entirely, or find a nerf that prevents the abuse but still makes it useful.

I agree. Maybe replace cease fire by +1 speed during 15 sec? That way, the cease fire non sense is removed, but you can still get away with a musk/huss composition.

[Aztecs :
Arrow knights only cost 1 population
Pumas don't have the siege unit tag anymore
Coyotes have +5 HP
Agree with these conceptually, but it has the potential to be too much and I think a more elegant way to change Aztecs might be to buff their politicians (except fast age).

I don't think this would be too much at all. Furthermore buffing the Aztec politicians wouldn't be elegant at all. It would just redesign the civ, that's not necessary at all, Aztec is already very well designed.

Rather than nerfing the unit, the dog soldier big button should be nerfed.

True. I guess make it "every 4 minutes" instead of every every 3 minutes.

Abus are supposed to feel dominant against other skirms. As compensation, they don't do as well against goons. If we really need to nerf them, which I don't think we do, I would sooner look at giving them negative multipliers against cav.

Abus are indeed supposed to counter the other skirms, but they're too good against EP goons currently. Also they're too good at sniping the artillery with they extra range.
So yea, if we don't remove the range, we'd have to give them negative multipliers against cav/artillery. We could also make them slower. +2range -1 speed seems fair considering they're artillery

Cassadores feel underwhelming. I don't know what ES was thinking changing cass into a reskinned skirmisher but for the love of god please restore them to former nilla glory.

I agree

Russia does feel a little strong imo. I think the musk buff was not needed and should be undone.

True.
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by Kawapasaka »

I feel like this has been discussed a fair bit already (at least in Twitch chats) - but what's the consensus on moving some of Port's cass/musk upgrade cards to earlier ages?
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Kawapasaka wrote:I feel like this has been discussed a fair bit already - but what's the consensus on moving some of Port's cass/musk upgrade cards to earlier ages?

It probably wouldn't affect 1v1 imo.
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by Riotcoke »

Kawapasaka wrote:I feel like this has been discussed a fair bit already (at least in Twitch chats) - but what's the consensus on moving some of Port's cass/musk upgrade cards to earlier ages?

From what zoom has said it's being tried out in the ep7 Beta.
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

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10 seconds cease fire is really sad. I don't think making it longer would be a nerf but in the end it's just fine as it is now. It's a stupid mechanic but you have to play around it.

+10 hp for Yabusame is not justified (did you at least checked if it changes any breaking point?) Let's not add changes that accomplish nothing basically.

I'd rather buff AK speed and give them 1 area damage.
Can't remove siege tag and not nerf siege attack of puma. The siege tag is there because the siege is insane.
Do +5hp on coyote even change any breakpoint aside against hussars?

Don't think the Dog soldier BB needs any nerf. 5 dogs for 1500f is just fine.

Can try Spain xp buff but needs testing.

I'm ok with abus changes, but I'd also change the rof nerf for a base attack nerf.

I think CDBs are fine at 125f.

Ok Jaeger nerf.

I don't like introducing resource cost cards for Ports. Also 3 organ gun shipment is not necessarily deserved.
Nilla cassas are not exactly better than TAD cassas. For sure they're more annoying to micro.

Idk about rusket buff. Maybe the vill cost buff was a better idea.
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

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bwinner wrote:6 abus would still be a bad card that would by no way compensate this huge nerf (that is the most stupide change ever btw). If you rly want to nerf abus in late age 3 (which doesn't make sens once again), you need to compensate a lot in middle age 3. So 7 Abus ist needed and another thing could be to reduce foundry cost. But in anyway, I think we will have to make only falcs and never abus which is just dumb.

6 abus wouldn't even be a bad card in terms of VS. How is 900 res and mostly gold bad?? And since abus are strong af it would be a strong card. 7 abus would be ridiculous lol.
Ofc it wouldn't make up for the -2 range. Because we don't want to make up for it. The nerf is needed.

Abus really need a rework. Give them an actual nerf instead of the rof thing, and keep range to 18 in fortress. I'm so annoyed people don't realize how strong they are. I've won so many games as otto in late colonial with a horrible eco and age 2 vs age 3 just because my units are unkillable.
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

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Kaiserklein wrote:
bwinner wrote:6 abus would still be a bad card that would by no way compensate this huge nerf (that is the most stupide change ever btw). If you rly want to nerf abus in late age 3 (which doesn't make sens once again), you need to compensate a lot in middle age 3. So 7 Abus ist needed and another thing could be to reduce foundry cost. But in anyway, I think we will have to make only falcs and never abus which is just dumb.

6 abus wouldn't even be a bad card in terms of VS. How is 900 res and mostly gold bad?? And since abus are strong af it would be a strong card. 7 abus would be ridiculous lol.
Ofc it wouldn't make up for the -2 range. Because we don't want to make up for it. It's needed.

Abus really need a rework. Give them an actual nerf instead of the rof thing, and keep range to 18 in fortress. I'm so annoyed people don't realize how strong they are. I've won so many games as otto in late colonial with a horrible eco and age 2 vs age 3 just because my units are unkillable.

Ok, so if you won in age 2, how is the age 3 abus nerf a solution ? that's just how idiot this change is, already no one does abus in age 3...
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

bwinner wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:
bwinner wrote:6 abus would still be a bad card that would by no way compensate this huge nerf (that is the most stupide change ever btw). If you rly want to nerf abus in late age 3 (which doesn't make sens once again), you need to compensate a lot in middle age 3. So 7 Abus ist needed and another thing could be to reduce foundry cost. But in anyway, I think we will have to make only falcs and never abus which is just dumb.

6 abus wouldn't even be a bad card in terms of VS. How is 900 res and mostly gold bad?? And since abus are strong af it would be a strong card. 7 abus would be ridiculous lol.
Ofc it wouldn't make up for the -2 range. Because we don't want to make up for it. It's needed.

Abus really need a rework. Give them an actual nerf instead of the rof thing, and keep range to 18 in fortress. I'm so annoyed people don't realize how strong they are. I've won so many games as otto in late colonial with a horrible eco and age 2 vs age 3 just because my units are unkillable.

Ok, so if you won in age 2, how is the age 3 abus nerf a solution ? that's just how idiot this change is, already no one does abus in age 3...

Everybody makes abus in age 3 when possible lol.
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

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[Armag] diarouga wrote:
princeofcarthage wrote:
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You could just walk away you know to a more defensive or advantageous position, ceasefire has a cool down period of 7 and half minutes, its not like you can do it anytime you wish. Most of the tournament games you know before hand what map it is, which player you are fighting, and that he is playing India. Despite that if you can't prepare or learn to fight against it then I seriously doubt your credibility despite agreeing with most of the suggestions. The most obvious answer is to try something different than standard meta, you can't keep nerfing civs or strats to fit your standard style of play.

Sure you can wall all the map to deal with cease fire, I know you can lol, so please don't try to teach me the game. My point is that it's absurd. Do we really want to watch games where one player has to wall the whole map?

Well its absurd you don't want to invest 100 wood into something that can save you 5k resources, kynesie literally walls and does same thing every water game, still everyone likes to watch him lol. of course if it becomes repetitive or every game is 100 walls no one would like to watch or play but thats not happening, but I guess every game skirm goon is fun to play and watch right? Also walls is one thing there may or may not be other ways to deal with it, for that it has to be explored.
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by Kaiserklein »

bwinner wrote:Ok, so if you won in age 2, how is the age 3 abus nerf a solution ? that's just how idiot this change is, already no one does abus in age 3...

Well I wanna nerf them in colo already, which ofc affects fort. They're too strong in colo already, so with the +2 range they're even stronger obviously.
I'd add abus pretty much whenever I age with a stagecoach. You even said yourself to me that abus are op in fortress so I'm not sure what you mean now.
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

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Post by Riotcoke »

Kaiserklein wrote:
bwinner wrote:Ok, so if you won in age 2, how is the age 3 abus nerf a solution ? that's just how idiot this change is, already no one does abus in age 3...

Well I wanna nerf them in colo already, which ofc affects fort. They're too strong in colo already, so with the +2 range they're even stronger obviously.
I'd add abus pretty much whenever I age with a stagecoach. You even said yourself to me that abus are op in fortress so I'm not sure what you mean now.

Bwinner doesn't want his botto to be nerfed that's all.
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

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princeofcarthage wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
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Sure you can wall all the map to deal with cease fire, I know you can lol, so please don't try to teach me the game. My point is that it's absurd. Do we really want to watch games where one player has to wall the whole map?

Well its absurd you don't want to invest 100 wood into something that can save you 5k resources, kynesie literally walls and does same thing every water game, still everyone likes to watch him lol. of course if it becomes repetitive or every game is 100 walls no one would like to watch or play but thats not happening, but I guess every game skirm goon is fun to play and watch right? Also walls is one thing there may or may not be other ways to deal with it, for that it has to be explored.

Right, having to wall up the whole map just because your opponent can click on an ability makes a lot of sense...... It's much more than 100w btw. And kynesie does it because he plays ports or japs which outscale most civs lol, gl walling up vs india with a civ with shitty eco and units.
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

princeofcarthage wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
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Sure you can wall all the map to deal with cease fire, I know you can lol, so please don't try to teach me the game. My point is that it's absurd. Do we really want to watch games where one player has to wall the whole map?

Well its absurd you don't want to invest 100 wood into something that can save you 5k resources, kynesie literally walls and does same thing every water game, still everyone likes to watch him lol. of course if it becomes repetitive or every game is 100 walls no one would like to watch or play but thats not happening, but I guess every game skirm goon is fun to play and watch right? Also walls is one thing there may or may not be other ways to deal with it, for that it has to be explored.

You have to invest these 100w, that's the only way, and I would wall against this in tournament of course.
The nerf is not really balance related, the issue is that it's a broken mechanic. High level skirm/goon games are fun to play and watch by the way. You have to balance your army composition (you can go for more skirms, switch to cav, even make some artillery transition, that's increasingly more common), get in position, there's a lot of dancing and raiding around the map.
With cease fire, you just have to make one unit (sepoy), wait in your base, click cease fire at one point, and win or lose depending on how well your attack went, how fun.
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

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[Armag] diarouga wrote:India : The civ feels strong right now. However, I think that without the cease fire abuse, India would be fine (the gurkha/zam composition is good, and you could still go sepoy/mahout/urumi). Furthermore, cease fire was meant to be a defensive ability, and it shouldn't be used agressively.
The cease fire only lasts 5-10 seconds, and the units can't move during the cease fire.
Not being able to move units during CF means that you won't be able to send units back to your base to repel a raid, i feel like this just destroys the uriginal purpose of the ability. As i already suggested, imo making it 18-20 seconds for india and 15 seconds for other civs would keep the defensive purpose intact, but the aggressive purpose would be a bit nerfed as india would have to get their deathball shot once or twice before they attack, if they want to jam it into the enemy army. Also, since many india players are arguing that the ability can be counterplayed (which i'm not really sure about but i like to give them the benefit of the doubt), with this change there would still be room for some experimentation on the counterplays, since the basic mechanic of the ability is pretty much unaltered. It does in fact feel like the game mechanic hasn't been fully explored yet.

China : The civ is fine.
Most likely yes. I'm still hoping for a consulate overhaul since the only viable option for china seems to be brits, but i might have to wait for the DE to see this

Japan : The civ is too vulnerable to artillery. A yabusame buff makes sense.
Yabusame +10 HP.
Afaik usually japan does decently thanks to flaming arrows that have more range than falcs, am i missing something? Regardless, i'm definitely up for a yabusame buff. Maybe a slight cost decrease? They are expensive as hell. If the civ needs anything else, i'd go with 115w shrines, which just helps japan a bit early on but doesn't snowball in the lategame like reverting pavillion buff would.

Aztecs : Aztec is one of the weakest civs in the game right now, I suggest :
Arrow knights only cost 1 population
Pumas don't have the siege unit tag anymore
Coyotes have +5 HP

I agree, maybe decrease also a bit the siege of puma spearmen. And coyo could as well get a +10 HP. +5 doesn't seems significant at all.

Iroquois : Iro is very strong, but I'm not sure a nerf is needed.
Yes no nerf pls :flowers:

Sioux : I think the Dog Soldier timing is too strong. Thus, I would either nerf that timing by nerfing their eco, or nerf dog soldiers.
The big button gives one DS every 4 minutes.
Agree on this one too. The big button, if anything, is the problem, not the unit itself. Also probably the tp eco buff just needs to go, with maybe some sort of compensation. Maybe buff Wind Runner in some way (+10% HP?) and Mustangs (again?) to 15%

Spain : The civ is quite weak (although I think it's better than what people think). I would like them to be as good as nilla spain.
You need less exp to get your shipments
Seems reasonable. It needs to be kept in close observation, we risk overbuffing it.

Dutch : The civ is fine from what I've seen.
Seems to be right

Otto : 20 range abus gun doesn't make sense. Right now, abus are too good in fortress. I'd like to see this removed.
+2 range for abus moved to industrial.
5abus changed to 6abus.
#reverttore
RoF=3, damage=32. Agreed on 5 to 6 abus. Possibly an Irregulars buff, like +10% dmg. As i see it, the range on abus is not a huge issue and probably reverting abus to RE RoF with the damage nerf would be enough to fix the whole thing, and we could leave the +2 range in fortress.


France : I think that France is a bit weak, thus I think we should unnerf it a bit.
CDB cost changed to 120f.
Could be good for the 13v age up. France doesn't seem in a bad spot either right now tbh.

Germany : The civ is one of the strongest civs. One of the issues is the jaeger shipment, which should be nerfed.
13 jaegers nerfed to 12 jaegers.
195 HP, 20% RR uhlans?

Port : The civ is still weak in 1v1 on "normal" maps. A big buff would make it op on water/big TP maps, so we have to be careful.
2 organ guns shipment changed to 3 organ guns for 200 (or 300) coin.
Give cassadors the nilla stats.

As much as vintage changes are likable, nilla cassadors are just bad imo. Too much overkill and paper like HP. I suggest cassadors get +10 HP, 70f 40g, and imo organ guns should recieve the same treatment: +25 HP. It would be nice to get the 100f crate back and restore vills to 100f and make the cost decrease scale with each age (95 in colonial, 90 in fortress, 85 in industrial), but probably it would buff water and TP maps as well.

Brit : The civ is good, but doesn't really deserve another nerf.
Agree. Maybe add +0,25x against HI to yeomen? Or make the longbow upgrades available from the get go, without having to wait for the card to come in.

Russia : The civ is a bit too strong at the moment. I'd revert the musk buff.
Undo the musk buff.
Can't really comment on this.


As a general change i would still like to see xbows get +0,25 vs HI. It would promote interesting/unusual playstyles from france, spain, ports and ger.
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

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I will be talking about 1v1 balance since its hard to balance both at the same time..

About Iro : I think iro doesnt need a nerf at all. It is quite strong at some situations with good treasures but a nerf would possibly make them bottom tier.

Japan : This civ feels really weak against Rush civs/semi FF civs/timing push etc. I think reverting Pavillion nerf would be a good fix, if not possible, go for discount to consulate probably ( 150w maybe? ) or make shrine buff significant eventhough Japan doesnt struggle with eco, imo reverting Pavillion nerf makes more sense.

Otto : Otto feels quite strong at some MU's because abus guns are quite strong with 20 range and it's a big deal for most civs, only mu Otto loses hard is against germany but I think thats not very important since germany is one of the best civ anyway. On the other hand, Otto is still one of the worst civ on no tp maps. For the record, abus guns rekt goons hard now which is also problem. I think as dia mentioned above, moving 20 range abus upgrade to age IV and giving otto some more options on no TP maps are probably the best deal.

Aztecs : I dont think aztek is that bad as dia mentioned, however they deserve a buff but since I don't play the civ, Idk what to suggest.

Spain : They got buffed but I think ff is still weak against some civs. Nilla Spain had some nice exp boost, would be good if it would be implemented to EP Spain.

Dutch : %100 agree with dia

France : %100 agree with dia

Germany : agree with dia

Brit : agree with dia

Russia : I disagree with reverting musk "buff", because it isn't even significant at all.

Porto : I think we miss the part that goons are the key unit of Porto, same goes for Sioux they have best cavs but their skirms are quite weak. I think instead of thinking how to buff cassadors, we would revert goon RR nerf for ports to %25. Also giving 100f crate back for 95f vills will be quite reasonable since you can't 10/10 anymore which was quite strong strategy on RE. Additionally, Mameluke werent nerfed accordingly,as @n0el stated before, either 1250 coin for 5 Mameluke or 4 Mameluke shipment for 800c will be more fair, I personally would rather 800c 4 mameluke shipment.
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

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Post by Hazza54321 »

Dont revert ruskrt buff russia is in a good spot right now
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Post by flontier »

Bwinner is revolting against his 2 senseis, i dont recognize him anymore, look what otto have done :(
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

gamevideo113 wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:India : The civ feels strong right now. However, I think that without the cease fire abuse, India would be fine (the gurkha/zam composition is good, and you could still go sepoy/mahout/urumi). Furthermore, cease fire was meant to be a defensive ability, and it shouldn't be used agressively.
The cease fire only lasts 5-10 seconds, and the units can't move during the cease fire.
Not being able to move units during CF means that you won't be able to send units back to your base to repel a raid, i feel like this just destroys the uriginal purpose of the ability. As i already suggested, imo making it 18-20 seconds for india and 15 seconds for other civs would keep the defensive purpose intact, but the aggressive purpose would be a bit nerfed as india would have to get their deathball shot once or twice before they attack, if they want to jam it into the enemy army. Also, since many india players are arguing that the ability can be counterplayed (which i'm not really sure about but i like to give them the benefit of the doubt), with this change there would still be room for some experimentation on the counterplays, since the basic mechanic of the ability is pretty much unaltered. It does in fact feel like the game mechanic hasn't been fully explored yet.

That's interesting, I like that change.

China : The civ is fine.
Most likely yes. I'm still hoping for a consulate overhaul since the only viable option for china seems to be brits, but i might have to wait for the DE to see this

Interesting but not really necessary.

Japan : The civ is too vulnerable to artillery. A yabusame buff makes sense.
Yabusame +10 HP.
Afaik usually japan does decently thanks to flaming arrows that have more range than falcs, am i missing something? Regardless, i'm definitely up for a yabusame buff. Maybe a slight cost decrease? They are expensive as hell.

Flaming arrows are good against falconets, but they die in one hit against culverins, which is why you can't make them to counter artillery.

Aztecs : Aztec is one of the weakest civs in the game right now, I suggest :
Arrow knights only cost 1 population
Pumas don't have the siege unit tag anymore
Coyotes have +5 HP

I agree, maybe decrease also a bit the siege of puma spearmen. And coyo could as well get a +10 HP. +5 doesn't seems significant at all.

Iroquois : Iro is very strong, but I'm not sure a nerf is needed.
Yes no nerf pls :flowers:

Sioux : I think the Dog Soldier timing is too strong. Thus, I would either nerf that timing by nerfing their eco, or nerf dog soldiers.
The big button gives one DS every 4 minutes.
Agree on this one too. The big button, if anything, is the problem, not the unit itself. Also probably the tp eco buff just needs to go, with maybe some sort of compensation. Maybe buff Wind Runner in some way (+10% HP?) and Mustangs (again?) to 15%

Spain : The civ is quite weak (although I think it's better than what people think). I would like them to be as good as nilla spain.
You need less exp to get your shipments
Seems reasonable. It needs to be kept in close observation, we risk overbuffing it.

Dutch : The civ is fine from what I've seen.
Seems to be right

Otto : 20 range abus gun doesn't make sense. Right now, abus are too good in fortress. I'd like to see this removed.
+2 range for abus moved to industrial.
5abus changed to 6abus.
#reverttore
RoF=3, damage=32. Agreed on 5 to 6 abus. Possibly an Irregulars buff, like +10% dmg. As i see it, the range on abus is not a huge issue and probably reverting abus to RE RoF with the damage nerf would be enough to fix the whole thing, and we could leave the +2 range in fortress.


The range is a huge issue, I don't understand why people underestimate it.

France : I think that France is a bit weak, thus I think we should unnerf it a bit.
CDB cost changed to 120f.
Could be good for the 13v age up. France doesn't seem in a bad spot either right now tbh.

Germany : The civ is one of the strongest civs. One of the issues is the jaeger shipment, which should be nerfed.
13 jaegers nerfed to 12 jaegers.
195 HP, 20% RR uhlans?

I wouldn't change uhlans.

Port : The civ is still weak in 1v1 on "normal" maps. A big buff would make it op on water/big TP maps, so we have to be careful.
2 organ guns shipment changed to 3 organ guns for 200 (or 300) coin.
Give cassadors the nilla stats.

As much as vintage changes are likable, nilla cassadors are just bad imo. Too much overkill and paper like HP. I suggest cassadors get +10 HP, 70f 40g, and imo organ guns should recieve the same treatment: +25 HP. It would be nice to get the 100f crate back and restore vills to 100f and make the cost decrease scale with each age (95 in colonial, 90 in fortress, 85 in industrial), but probably it would buff water and TP maps as well.

Brit : The civ is good, but doesn't really deserve another nerf.
Agree. Maybe add +0,25x against HI to yeomen? Or make the longbow upgrades available from the get go, without having to wait for the card to come in.

Apparently, people don't want lb to counter musks.

Russia : The civ is a bit too strong at the moment. I'd revert the musk buff.
Undo the musk buff.
Can't really comment on this.


As a general change i would still like to see xbows get +0,25 vs HI. It would promote interesting/unusual playstyles from france, spain, ports and ger.

xbows are just fine honestly. In early game, when you can micro them, xbow/pike is better than musk/huss. In middle game it's a different story but the xbowmen aren't useless at all. They're really good defensively and in small numbers.
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by Riotcoke »

deleted_user wrote:I will be talking about 1v1 balance since its hard to balance both at the same time..

About Iro : I think iro doesnt need a nerf at all. It is quite strong at some situations with good treasures but a nerf would possibly make them bottom tier.

Japan : This civ feels really weak against Rush civs/semi FF civs/timing push etc. I think reverting Pavillion nerf would be a good fix, if not possible, go for discount to consulate probably ( 150w maybe? ) or make shrine buff significant eventhough Japan doesnt struggle with eco, imo reverting Pavillion nerf makes more sense.

Otto : Otto feels quite strong at some MU's because abus guns are quite strong with 20 range and it's a big deal for most civs, only mu Otto loses hard is against germany but I thinkthats not very important since germany is one of the best civ anyway. On the other hand, Otto is still one of the worst civ on no tp maps. For the record, abus guns rekt goons hard now which is also problem. I think as dia mentioned above, moving 20 range abus upgrade to age IV and giving otto some more options on no TP maps are probably the best deal.

Aztecs : I dont think aztek is that bad as dia mentioned, however they deserve a buff but since I don't play the civ, Idk what to suggest.

Spain : They got buffed but I think ff is still weak against some civs. Nilla Spain had some nice exp boost, would be good if it would be implemented to EP Spain.

Dutch : %100 agree with dia

France : %100 agree with dia

Germany : agree with dia

Brit : agree with dia

Russia : I disagree with reverting musk "buff", because it isn't even significant at all.

Porto : I think we miss the part that goons are the key unit of Porto, same goes for Sioux they have best cavs but their skirms are quite weak. I think instead of thinking how to buff cassadors, we would revert goon RR nerf for ports to %25. Also giving 100f crate back for 95f vills will be quite reasonable since you can't 10/10 anymore which was quite strong strategy on RE. Additionally, Mameluke werent nerfed accordingly,as @n0el stated before, either 1250 coin for 5 Mameluke or 4 Mameluke shipment for 800c will be more fair, I personally would rather 800c 4 mameluke shipment.

How does buffing the pavilion again remove japan's weakness vs rush civs. And if you can't have a timing vs japan the civ will be op as their late game is so strong.
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by edeholland »

Riotcoke wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
amiggo1999 wrote:unit's can't move during cease fire? ahaha, that really is stupid.

Units going in melee during cease fire is stupid tbh. What's the logic? You make peace with your opponent, then you melee his army and rape it once the cease fire is over?

Urumi also can't go into melee :)
They can go into melee, it's actually their only attack mode. It's just that they do ranged damage.
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by deleted_user »

Riotcoke wrote:
deleted_user wrote:I will be talking about 1v1 balance since its hard to balance both at the same time..

About Iro : I think iro doesnt need a nerf at all. It is quite strong at some situations with good treasures but a nerf would possibly make them bottom tier.

Japan : This civ feels really weak against Rush civs/semi FF civs/timing push etc. I think reverting Pavillion nerf would be a good fix, if not possible, go for discount to consulate probably ( 150w maybe? ) or make shrine buff significant eventhough Japan doesnt struggle with eco, imo reverting Pavillion nerf makes more sense.

Otto : Otto feels quite strong at some MU's because abus guns are quite strong with 20 range and it's a big deal for most civs, only mu Otto loses hard is against germany but I thinkthats not very important since germany is one of the best civ anyway. On the other hand, Otto is still one of the worst civ on no tp maps. For the record, abus guns rekt goons hard now which is also problem. I think as dia mentioned above, moving 20 range abus upgrade to age IV and giving otto some more options on no TP maps are probably the best deal.

Aztecs : I dont think aztek is that bad as dia mentioned, however they deserve a buff but since I don't play the civ, Idk what to suggest.

Spain : They got buffed but I think ff is still weak against some civs. Nilla Spain had some nice exp boost, would be good if it would be implemented to EP Spain.

Dutch : %100 agree with dia

France : %100 agree with dia

Germany : agree with dia

Brit : agree with dia

Russia : I disagree with reverting musk "buff", because it isn't even significant at all.

Porto : I think we miss the part that goons are the key unit of Porto, same goes for Sioux they have best cavs but their skirms are quite weak. I think instead of thinking how to buff cassadors, we would revert goon RR nerf for ports to %25. Also giving 100f crate back for 95f vills will be quite reasonable since you can't 10/10 anymore which was quite strong strategy on RE. Additionally, Mameluke werent nerfed accordingly,as @n0el stated before, either 1250 coin for 5 Mameluke or 4 Mameluke shipment for 800c will be more fair, I personally would rather 800c 4 mameluke shipment.

How does buffing the pavilion again remove japan's weakness vs rush civs. And if you can't have a timing vs japan the civ will be op as their late game is so strong.

Because it is just better to revert nerf than adding new buff :smile:
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Re: EP 7 suggestions

Post by Riotcoke »

deleted_user wrote:
Riotcoke wrote:
deleted_user wrote:I will be talking about 1v1 balance since its hard to balance both at the same time..

About Iro : I think iro doesnt need a nerf at all. It is quite strong at some situations with good treasures but a nerf would possibly make them bottom tier.

Japan : This civ feels really weak against Rush civs/semi FF civs/timing push etc. I think reverting Pavillion nerf would be a good fix, if not possible, go for discount to consulate probably ( 150w maybe? ) or make shrine buff significant eventhough Japan doesnt struggle with eco, imo reverting Pavillion nerf makes more sense.

Otto : Otto feels quite strong at some MU's because abus guns are quite strong with 20 range and it's a big deal for most civs, only mu Otto loses hard is against germany but I thinkthats not very important since germany is one of the best civ anyway. On the other hand, Otto is still one of the worst civ on no tp maps. For the record, abus guns rekt goons hard now which is also problem. I think as dia mentioned above, moving 20 range abus upgrade to age IV and giving otto some more options on no TP maps are probably the best deal.

Aztecs : I dont think aztek is that bad as dia mentioned, however they deserve a buff but since I don't play the civ, Idk what to suggest.

Spain : They got buffed but I think ff is still weak against some civs. Nilla Spain had some nice exp boost, would be good if it would be implemented to EP Spain.

Dutch : %100 agree with dia

France : %100 agree with dia

Germany : agree with dia

Brit : agree with dia

Russia : I disagree with reverting musk "buff", because it isn't even significant at all.

Porto : I think we miss the part that goons are the key unit of Porto, same goes for Sioux they have best cavs but their skirms are quite weak. I think instead of thinking how to buff cassadors, we would revert goon RR nerf for ports to %25. Also giving 100f crate back for 95f vills will be quite reasonable since you can't 10/10 anymore which was quite strong strategy on RE. Additionally, Mameluke werent nerfed accordingly,as @n0el stated before, either 1250 coin for 5 Mameluke or 4 Mameluke shipment for 800c will be more fair, I personally would rather 800c 4 mameluke shipment.

How does buffing the pavilion again remove japan's weakness vs rush civs. And if you can't have a timing vs japan the civ will be op as their late game is so strong.

Because it is just better to revert nerf than adding new buff :smile:

It was op though, it also only helps them late game, which is already insane.The reason it was nerfed anyway was because it wasn't additive but multiplicative.
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