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New Zealand zoom
EP Project Lead
Posts: 9058
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

22 Jul 2019, 18:29

Hai – I hope you are all well!

With the recent conclusion of the LAN event (congratulations to organizers, participants and viewers, alike), it's time for another poll! Your response is instrumental to decisions made on patch development:

https://tinyurl.com/yxomxvpj

I expect to launch an initial beta for EP7, sometime in August. Beyond development and feedback, I've been focusing on expanding community involvement, in addition to testing. This is more important than ever, given the relatively experimental nature of some upcoming changes. I will share more details, when they've become clear. To quote myself from the last poll:

"Moving forward, one major goal of EP7 will be increasing the number of viable options. As per usual, certain civilizations may be especially rebalanced, depending on feedback."

Thank you all for your feedback, patience and support!

Results Update: By the grace of Goodspeed – the second known entity in the universe to have mastered Google Sheets – I am able to once again present you with these gorgeous graphs.
Effective ESOC Patch notes

Blue-haired girl being slain

'This is no declaration, I just thought I'd let you know goodbye'
Said the hero in the story
'It is mightier than swords. I could kill you sure, but I could only make you cry with these words'
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New Zealand zoom
EP Project Lead
Posts: 9058
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

22 Jul 2019, 18:29

I will try to provide better graphs, later in the week.
Effective ESOC Patch notes

Blue-haired girl being slain

'This is no declaration, I just thought I'd let you know goodbye'
Said the hero in the story
'It is mightier than swords. I could kill you sure, but I could only make you cry with these words'
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Italy gamevideo113
Howdah
Posts: 1361
ESO: gamevideo113

22 Jul 2019, 18:40

Is it better if we use the whole spectrum of values to rank relative civ strength or if we use it as an absolute rating of civ strength?
[Some people aspire to be pr30+, some people aspire to have fun, and some people aspire to play 3v3 Deccan.] - vividlyplain - 2019

Who (nationality) rape ?
stupid logic. noob players can say op?
toxic, Insult, Racism ?
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United States of America Cometk
Tournament Admin
Posts: 4691
ESO: DJ_Cometk
Location: California

22 Jul 2019, 19:04

@zoom you should disable the ability to submit multiple responses
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Netherlands Goodspeed
Retired Contributor
EPL Reigning Champs
Posts: 8597

22 Jul 2019, 19:06

That means you have to login therefore need a google account. But maybe that's ok, maybe everyone has a google account these days
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United States of America Cometk
Tournament Admin
Posts: 4691
ESO: DJ_Cometk
Location: California

22 Jul 2019, 19:07

Just voted twice, fuck the system
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New Zealand zoom
EP Project Lead
Posts: 9058
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

22 Jul 2019, 19:17

Cometk wrote:@zoom you should disable the ability to submit multiple responses
It seems we never have, in the past. I think I'd rather just ask for ESOC username, and delete illegitimate responses.

For the record, if anyone makes multiple entries, in the same name, I will continue to save the newest one, unless I've reason to do otherwise.
Effective ESOC Patch notes

Blue-haired girl being slain

'This is no declaration, I just thought I'd let you know goodbye'
Said the hero in the story
'It is mightier than swords. I could kill you sure, but I could only make you cry with these words'
User avatar
New Zealand zoom
EP Project Lead
Posts: 9058
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

22 Jul 2019, 19:29

zoom wrote:
Cometk wrote:@zoom you should disable the ability to submit multiple responses
It seems we never have, in the past. I think I'd rather just ask for ESOC username, and delete illegitimate responses.

For the record, if anyone makes multiple entries, in the same name, I will continue to save the newest one, unless I've reason to do otherwise.
Let's just take your advice.
Effective ESOC Patch notes

Blue-haired girl being slain

'This is no declaration, I just thought I'd let you know goodbye'
Said the hero in the story
'It is mightier than swords. I could kill you sure, but I could only make you cry with these words'
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 10026
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

23 Jul 2019, 14:56

I took Hudson Bay (ignoring the sea) to rate the civs :

Tier 1 (Germany) :
Germany 9

Would be 8 without the TP start, but 200w start is a thing.

Thus, I'd nerf the jaeger shipment to 12jaegers (because 8/10 civs need a small nerf), and we need to do something about the 200w start.

Tier 2 (top civs) :
Brit 8
Iroquois 8
India 8
Sioux 8
Otto 8


It was hard to rate these civs because brit and iro are very consistent. They seem to be good in every situation, regardless of age 1 while India, Otto and Sioux are great sometimes (depending on the MU, the age 1, the crate start), and not that good sometimes.

Brit being one of the hardest civs to play (ie it should be rewarding), and being a "low tier 2" civ, probably doesn't need a nerf.
I'm not sure how we should nerf iro. I'd nerf the WC aura to 8% instead of 10% but it's probably not necessary because people don't understand how good Iro is.
India : Need to nerf or redesign cease fire.
Sioux : Nerf the big button to 1 DS every 4 min
Otto : remove the +2 abus range in age 3 and put it in age 4. 5 abus in fortress becomes 6 abus.

Tier 3 (average civs) :
China 7
Russia 7
Dutch 6
France 6
Japan 6
Port 6
Spain 5


These civs don't really need a change, but I'd still remove the musk buff for Russia because the civ is too good on no TP or low hunt maps.
I'd also buff Spain a bit (their shipments should come faster).

Trash tier (unplayable civ) :
Aztecs 4

This civ needs to be buffed. I'd go for +5hp coyotes (or -10food), arrow knights only cost 1 pop and pumas are no longer considered as a siege unit
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Finland somppukunkku
Advanced Player
Donator 02
Posts: 2728
ESO: PrinceOfBabu

23 Jul 2019, 14:58

The way I understood the scale is that the weakest civ is always 1 and the strongest 10?
The scale should be explained better.

Or atleast that would make more sense.
Co-Founder of Somali Kabuli Gaming
Homo management SKG
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France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 10026
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

23 Jul 2019, 15:01

somppukunkku wrote:The way I understood the scale is that the weakest civ is always 1 and the strongest 10?
The scale should be explained better.

Or atleast that would make more sense.

It's a mess every time. Some people rate from 1 to 10 and some rate from 4 to 8 xD.
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Turkey HUMMAN
Lancer
Posts: 745
ESO: HUMMAN

23 Jul 2019, 15:03

Damn i'm glad dia won the tourney, now people has to actually give a fuck. Slowly but surely more and more people will join the Armag army.From his ban to his triumph, next step is fixing crates and removing non-tp bullshit from the game.#competitiveaoe #armag
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Germany amiggo1999
Advanced Player
Donator 01
Posts: 498
ESO: miggo1999
Location: Hannover

23 Jul 2019, 15:04

Maybe for the sake of simplification the options should be more limited? Like just 1 (way too weak) 2 (a bit weak) 3 (ok) 4 (a bit strong) 5 (way too strong). Perhaps the results would be more consistent among voters.
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Netherlands edeholland
ESOC Community Team
Donator 01
Posts: 4176
ESO: edeholland
Location: the cloud
GameRanger ID: 4053888

23 Jul 2019, 15:06

I think changing "Weakest" and "Strongest" to "Weak" and "Strong" may be enough.
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France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 10026
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

23 Jul 2019, 15:07

I think amiggo is right. "too weak", "too strong" etc makes more sense than random numbers.
Also where can we see the results?
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Canada Mitoe
ESOC Media Team
EWTNWC LAN Top 8
Posts: 4351
ESO: Mitoe
GameRanger ID: 346407

23 Jul 2019, 15:08

Rating Germany above Sioux lol
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Netherlands edeholland
ESOC Community Team
Donator 01
Posts: 4176
ESO: edeholland
Location: the cloud
GameRanger ID: 4053888

23 Jul 2019, 15:08

[Armag] diarouga wrote:I think amiggo is right. "too weak", "too strong" etc makes more sense than random numbers.
Also where can we see the results?
Zoom said he would provide graphs later this week. I doubt we will be able to see the actual responses.
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France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 10026
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

23 Jul 2019, 15:11

Mitoe wrote:Rating Germany above Sioux lol

Sioux has bad MUs.
For instance Sioux can't beat brit/Port, and they struggle against Spain, Dutch and Otto.

To be fair, even Iro/France/Germany is not easy to beat as Sioux (like if you wall your resources at 14-15min and pull the vills you can definitely hold the timing).
Germany on the other hand, doesn't have a single bad MU on wood start.
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France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 10026
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

23 Jul 2019, 15:11

edeholland wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:I think amiggo is right. "too weak", "too strong" etc makes more sense than random numbers.
Also where can we see the results?
Zoom said he would provide graphs later this week. I doubt we will be able to see the actual responses.

GS used to share the table with us :mad:
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Canada Mitoe
ESOC Media Team
EWTNWC LAN Top 8
Posts: 4351
ESO: Mitoe
GameRanger ID: 346407

23 Jul 2019, 15:13

HUMMAN wrote:Damn i'm glad dia won the tourney, now people has to actually give a fuck. Slowly but surely more and more people will join the Armag army.From his ban to his triumph, next step is fixing crates and removing non-tp bullshit from the game.#competitiveaoe #armag

You think people didn’t care before? You can’t be serious.

@[Armag] diarouga Sioux can definitely beat Brit. Ports I’m less certain about but I’m pretty sure Sioux can still win that, at least off of water.
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France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 10026
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

23 Jul 2019, 15:16

I played Brit vs kaiser playing Sioux and I won very easily. After that, we agreed to say that this was hopeless for Sioux (maybe it was because kaiser was mad though).
I also lost this MU to mookie and I don't think I made many mistakes in that game.

Anyway, as I said previously, Sioux feels really strong sometimes, and nothing special in some other games. Thus, overall the civ is not as strong as Germany.
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Turkey HUMMAN
Lancer
Posts: 745
ESO: HUMMAN

23 Jul 2019, 15:25

Mitoe wrote:
HUMMAN wrote:Damn i'm glad dia won the tourney, now people has to actually give a fuck. Slowly but surely more and more people will join the Armag army.From his ban to his triumph, next step is fixing crates and removing non-tp bullshit from the game.#competitiveaoe #armag

You think people didn’t care before? You can’t be serious.

@[Armag] diarouga Sioux can definitely beat Brit. Ports I’m less certain about but I’m pretty sure Sioux can still win that, at least off of water.

Well i am not that an old member, but i remember people were not even taking serious crate starts; partly rouga too. He was kinda like Jerom in that sense. And by the time people's idea's shifting since he is talking logical altough behaves somewhat childish maybe thats why he is not taken so serious. (like his fight with zoi, he was kinda right but couldnt act mature) Now with a poll pretty sure fixing crates would win. And most importantly there's high value in forum for PR instead of ideas and now i am happy because now your boss is diarouga. #Armag.
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Germany Lukas_L99
Pro Player
Donator 01
Posts: 1585
ESO: Lukas_L99
Location: Frankfurt

23 Jul 2019, 15:48

[Armag] diarouga wrote:I played Brit vs kaiser playing Sioux and I won very easily. After that, we agreed to say that this was hopeless for Sioux (maybe it was because kaiser was mad though).
I also lost this MU to mookie and I don't think I made many mistakes in that game.

Anyway, as I said previously, Sioux feels really strong sometimes, and nothing special in some other games. Thus, overall the civ is not as strong as Germany.


I think there's a way to beat it, but I still need to figure it out.
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 7955
ESO: Garja

23 Jul 2019, 16:05

I think Sioux-Brits is just another MU were brits end up being screwed.
4 axe 5v 700g with 2tps and heavy raiding and brit can't really do their nice and dandy eco stuff. I mean, they can but they will be delayed and then Sioux pure axe wakina is a pain for Brits.
If brits go anything aggro sioux can stay colonial while riding and then pick a good fight and win. Cetans buff made sioux colonial combo actually pretty good. Honestly the eco difference only matter if game drags long with possibly walls and shit. In fact I think best brit can do is just standard+some walls and then try to age at some point. Not sure it's easy tho as they need hunts.
And in all of this Sioux can rush just like other native civs basically. Since you need quite some wood for that I think it's good to have 4 or more teepees and maybe skip the 2nd TP.
Great Britain Hazza54321
Pro Player
Donator 01
Posts: 6536
ESO: PrinceofBabu

23 Jul 2019, 16:09

Yeah i dont see how brit win. What sort of strat were you doing

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