Actually, it's the other way around. This is because the game confusingly refers to cooldown (or time between shots) as "rate of fire". Therefore, it is technically correct to say that what is referred to as "rate of fire" has been increased. The problem is that it actually isn't the rate of fire, not the change or the terminology – note how the actual note reads "rate of fire" in quotation marks. In fact, doing it any other way would be technically incorrect.princeofcarthage wrote:- Cassador ranged attack "rate-of-fire" increased from 3.0 to 3.5. Attack increased from 17 to 20
Technically you have decreased rate of fire, not increased.
EP 7.0.x Beta [RELEASED-LIVE]
Re: EP 7.0.x Beta [2019-08-15]
Re: EP 7.0.x Beta [2019-08-15]
It's funny, I told Eaglemut the exact same thing, when we looked at it. I wonder what happened, there...Aizamk wrote:subjectivity will always exist. best to just read the whole list, balance changes and bug fixes as there will always be some overlap.
btw @Mitoe Comanche Trade Language already affects European and TWC age up politicians/chiefs as technologies.
Also I was pretty sure changdao cover mode attack thing was fixed many many patches ago, which is weird.
Re: EP 7.0.x Beta [2019-08-15]
Same. Continually considering tweaking it.pecelot wrote:I like the patch notes, hand infantry buffs are called for, but I worry about the rajputs change, Indian units are already pretty strong
- princeofcarthage
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Re: EP 7.0.x Beta [2019-08-15]
zoom wrote:Actually, it's the other way around. This is because the game confusingly refers to cooldown (or time between shots) as "rate of fire". Therefore, it is technically correct to say that what is referred to as "rate of fire" has been increased. The problem is that it actually isn't the rate of fire, not the change or the terminology – note how the actual note reads "rate of fire" in quotation marks. In fact, doing it any other way would be technically incorrect.princeofcarthage wrote:- Cassador ranged attack "rate-of-fire" increased from 3.0 to 3.5. Attack increased from 17 to 20
Technically you have decreased rate of fire, not increased.
We have had this discussion on twitch, a long one. I explained and you agreed, but again... Rate of fire indicates no. of projectiles fired per min or seconds i.e. basically in terms of aoe 3 is how many times a unit shoots per min, what you are saying as cooldown or time between shots or reload time is the time in between the 2 shots. Technically same data is used but terminology indicates 2 different things and as such are inversely proportional. So technically when you change 3.0 seconds to 3.5 seconds it is decreasing rate of fire and increasing reload time.
Fine line to something great is a strange change.
Re: EP 7.0.x Beta [2019-08-26]
Age of empires 3 rate of fire has different meaning. You are right that it should have called different way. But its how it is...
https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/Sk ... mpires_III)
https://ageofempires.fandom.com/wiki/Sk ... mpires_III)
Re: EP 7.0.x Beta [2019-08-26]
scarm wrote:If anyone wants to mess around a bit on the Beta, i am online right now on Malebranche.
I'm online now
- iCourt
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Re: EP 7.0.x Beta [2019-08-15]
zoom wrote:It's funny, I told Eaglemut the exact same thing, when we looked at it. I wonder what happened, there...Aizamk wrote:subjectivity will always exist. best to just read the whole list, balance changes and bug fixes as there will always be some overlap.
btw @Mitoe Comanche Trade Language already affects European and TWC age up politicians/chiefs as technologies.
Also I was pretty sure changdao cover mode attack thing was fixed many many patches ago, which is weird.
Bug fixes may cause balance changes. If it's a "big" enough change its best to list it in both places identically worded.
Otherwise place in spot that feels the most appropriate.
It's honestly just what "feels" best on where to list things.
For instance Japanese deck check for x2 might be best listed under bug fixes and in the balance changes as it's very impactful.
Re: EP 7.0.x Beta [2019-08-26]
has the incendiary grenades improvement been moved to the colonial age with advanced arsenal?
Re: EP 7.0.x Beta [2019-08-15]
zoom wrote:I like the idea of an INFINITE shipment. The priority should be making the unit less shit, though.aqwer wrote:@zoom
Spahi rr buff to 20% is decent but for only two shipment tops (5 age3 and 6 age4) and maybe age4 age up.
Why not make them trainable in stable with ( 350 res, 4 pop - Kaiser) adjusted cost and remove auto upgrade and healing.
Or the lesser solution is to add an infinite shipment in age IV.
Infinite shipment is kinda limiting bcz Otto doesn't have a generic xp generation ability like India's sacred fields. (Mosque is negligible in late game when you need to use infinite shipment). Just change the rr to 20% and it's fine.
Just test it with ( pop=4 , f= 200, c=200, att = 36, hp= 800).
#trainableSpahi
Re: EP 7.0.x Beta [2019-08-26]
20% rr is not fine.
The xp thing is mostly a treaty argument. We all know Otto get 3x the number of shipments India get.
The xp thing is mostly a treaty argument. We all know Otto get 3x the number of shipments India get.
- iCourt
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Re: EP 7.0.x Beta [2019-08-26]
Every infinite shipment is limiting because they are hardly able to be utilized, and most are age 4 shipments. Spahi are really just beefy Gendarme, they are unique as they can only be shipped from the home city similar to a merc.
(Sure they auto heal when not moving, but if your Spahi are stationary you're messin' up bro.)
I would agree they probably should get an infinite shipment to differentiate them from being 1 time use Merc cards. How I would test this.
Set 3 Spahi to infinite. This gives Ottoman one of their unique units they can call upon multiple times in Fortress Age. Probably wouldn't be used much, but it does give a player the option to go this route and utilize their unique unit.
Keep 5 Spahi as is.
Keep age up politician at 3 Spahi. The unit auto upgrades so increasing this could be dangerous.
Increase 4 Spahi to infinite 5 Spahi, increase food bounty accordingly. This shipment would allow Ottoman to utilize their unique unit at later engagements if they so choose.
Increase 6 Spahi to 7 Spahi, adjust food bounty accordingly. This would be the alternative shipment to the Industrial Age infinite option.
How does this effect balance? I don't think it would that much. Fast Fortress probably wouldn't be changed much. There are still better shipments to send than 3 Spahi repeatedly. Fast Industrial could become a bit strong? Could always reduce the counts by minus one again after testing. Still probably better things to send than Spahi repeatedly, but I feel the option should be available to send infinite as it makes it feel less like a mercenary shipment.
Is any of this necessary? Nope. Probably easier just not to change anything currently.
(Sure they auto heal when not moving, but if your Spahi are stationary you're messin' up bro.)
I would agree they probably should get an infinite shipment to differentiate them from being 1 time use Merc cards. How I would test this.
Set 3 Spahi to infinite. This gives Ottoman one of their unique units they can call upon multiple times in Fortress Age. Probably wouldn't be used much, but it does give a player the option to go this route and utilize their unique unit.
Keep 5 Spahi as is.
Keep age up politician at 3 Spahi. The unit auto upgrades so increasing this could be dangerous.
Increase 4 Spahi to infinite 5 Spahi, increase food bounty accordingly. This shipment would allow Ottoman to utilize their unique unit at later engagements if they so choose.
Increase 6 Spahi to 7 Spahi, adjust food bounty accordingly. This would be the alternative shipment to the Industrial Age infinite option.
How does this effect balance? I don't think it would that much. Fast Fortress probably wouldn't be changed much. There are still better shipments to send than 3 Spahi repeatedly. Fast Industrial could become a bit strong? Could always reduce the counts by minus one again after testing. Still probably better things to send than Spahi repeatedly, but I feel the option should be available to send infinite as it makes it feel less like a mercenary shipment.
Is any of this necessary? Nope. Probably easier just not to change anything currently.
- Imperial Noob
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Re: EP 7.0.x Beta [2019-08-26]
EP nerfed base wall HP by 50%. The Portuguese card in age 2 used to improve walls by 1500 HP. Now it does only by 750 HP, which changes it from situational to completely useless. A fix please?
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Re: EP 7.0.x Beta [2019-08-15]
aqwer wrote:zoom wrote:I like the idea of an INFINITE shipment. The priority should be making the unit less shit, though.aqwer wrote:@zoom
Spahi rr buff to 20% is decent but for only two shipment tops (5 age3 and 6 age4) and maybe age4 age up.
Why not make them trainable in stable with ( 350 res, 4 pop - Kaiser) adjusted cost and remove auto upgrade and healing.
Or the lesser solution is to add an infinite shipment in age IV.
Infinite shipment is kinda limiting bcz Otto doesn't have a generic xp generation ability like India's sacred fields. (Mosque is negligible in late game when you need to use infinite shipment). Just change the rr to 20% and it's fine.
Just test it with ( pop=4 , f= 200, c=200, att = 36, hp= 800).
Don't complain about the easy civ. If a civ is easy it should be weaker.
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Re: EP 7.0.x Beta [2019-08-26]
the esoc patch tryes to balance the patch at top Level. They dont really care About Otto being op at lower Levels. the same with russa and India or China, they all are whay stronger at lower Levels. so they wont nerf Otto becouse they have less potential
Re: EP 7.0.x Beta [2019-08-26]
On re vet jan mass + 5 mams is a very common strat.
I guess spahi buffs just aiming to replace mams...
I guess spahi buffs just aiming to replace mams...
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Re: EP 7.0.x Beta [2019-08-26]
juhjuh wrote:the esoc patch tryes to balance the patch at top Level. They dont really care About Otto being op at lower Levels. the same with russa and India or China, they all are whay stronger at lower Levels. so they wont nerf Otto becouse they have less potential
Tbh many top level players (half of them, me included) want Russia and Otto to be nerfed because the civs are just too easy to play. They don't get nerfed though because apparently all the civs should be as strong, regardless of how easy they are. Playing a hard civ is just not rewarded.
Re: EP 7.0.x Beta [2019-08-26]
Imperial Noob wrote:EP nerfed base wall HP by 50%. The Portuguese card in age 2 used to improve walls by 1500 HP. Now it does only by 750 HP, which changes it from situational to completely useless. A fix please?
I suggest to increase longer wall price according to its lenght. And you can get 3k hp back...
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Re: EP 7.0.x Beta [2019-08-26]
[Armag] diarouga wrote:juhjuh wrote:the esoc patch tryes to balance the patch at top Level. They dont really care About Otto being op at lower Levels. the same with russa and India or China, they all are whay stronger at lower Levels. so they wont nerf Otto becouse they have less potential
Tbh many top level players (half of them, me included) want Russia and Otto to be nerfed because the civs are just too easy to play. They don't get nerfed though because apparently all the civs should be as strong, regardless of how easy they are. Playing a hard civ is just not rewarded.
Otto is op on lewer Levels also russa is really strnong
- [Armag] diarouga
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Re: EP 7.0.x Beta [2019-08-26]
The issue is that Otto and Russia are strong at top level as well, but easier to play so yea, it's an issue.
Re: EP 7.0.x Beta [2019-08-15]
Riotcoke wrote:aqwer wrote:Show hidden quotes
Infinite shipment is kinda limiting bcz Otto doesn't have a generic xp generation ability like India's sacred fields. (Mosque is negligible in late game when you need to use infinite shipment). Just change the rr to 20% and it's fine.
Just test it with ( pop=4 , f= 200, c=200, att = 36, hp= 800).
Don't complain about the easy civ. If a civ is easy it should be weaker.
And how would you define easy? Maybe its your own subjective opinion which is not a valid argument.
#trainableSpahi
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Re: EP 7.0.x Beta [2019-08-15]
aqwer wrote:Riotcoke wrote:Show hidden quotes
Don't complain about the easy civ. If a civ is easy it should be weaker.
And how would you define easy? Maybe its your own subjective opinion which is not a valid argument.
Okay, so firstly their macro is a joke. You need like 5 apm. Their main uni comp is piss easy, all their builds are piss easy and aren't complex. Now compare this to a civ like Germany which is also a eurociv. Your Age 1 macro is harder than otto macro all game. You have to actually train settlers, Your units are either shit or clunky and hard to micro.
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Re: EP 7.0.x Beta [2019-08-15]
Riotcoke wrote:aqwer wrote:Show hidden quotes
And how would you define easy? Maybe its your own subjective opinion which is not a valid argument.
Okay, so firstly their macro is a joke. You need like 5 apm. Their main uni comp is piss easy, all their builds are piss easy and aren't complex. Now compare this to a civ like Germany which is also a eurociv. Your Age 1 macro is harder than otto macro all game. You have to actually train settlers, Your units are either shit or clunky and hard to micro.
with makes them super good at 1lt and captain Level. while they might be balenced in a game between to top Level Players they are op in lower Levels. Sadly tho the esoc patch dose only care About balence on top Level
Re: EP 7.0.x Beta [2019-08-15]
Riotcoke wrote:aqwer wrote:Show hidden quotes
And how would you define easy? Maybe its your own subjective opinion which is not a valid argument.
Okay, so firstly their macro is a joke. You need like 5 apm. Their main uni comp is piss easy, all their builds are piss easy and aren't complex. Now compare this to a civ like Germany which is also a eurociv. Your Age 1 macro is harder than otto macro all game. You have to actually train settlers, Your units are either shit or clunky and hard to micro.
Very interesting thought and example. So if Germany is "hard" , why there is so much voices to nerf them? Shouldn't be the hard civs to play also be strong to be more " rewarding", as quoted by previous NWC winner.
#trainableSpahi
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Re: EP 7.0.x Beta [2019-08-15]
juhjuh wrote:Riotcoke wrote:Show hidden quotes
Okay, so firstly their macro is a joke. You need like 5 apm. Their main uni comp is piss easy, all their builds are piss easy and aren't complex. Now compare this to a civ like Germany which is also a eurociv. Your Age 1 macro is harder than otto macro all game. You have to actually train settlers, Your units are either shit or clunky and hard to micro.
with makes them super good at 1lt and captain Level. while they might be balenced in a game between to top Level Players they are op in lower Levels. Sadly tho the esoc patch dose only care About balence on top Level
They basically add +5 pr at any level.
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Re: EP 7.0.x Beta [2019-08-15]
aqwer wrote:Riotcoke wrote:Show hidden quotes
Okay, so firstly their macro is a joke. You need like 5 apm. Their main uni comp is piss easy, all their builds are piss easy and aren't complex. Now compare this to a civ like Germany which is also a eurociv. Your Age 1 macro is harder than otto macro all game. You have to actually train settlers, Your units are either shit or clunky and hard to micro.
Very interesting thought and example. So if Germany is "hard" , why there is so much voices to nerf them? Shouldn't be the hard civs to play also be strong to be more " rewarding", as quoted by previous NWC winner.
Because Germany isn't hard in comparison to other civs, it's just that otto is painfully easy.
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