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France [Armag] diarouga
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04 Sep 2019, 15:40

edeholland wrote:
Cometk wrote:the thing is is that no evidence is actually being put forward, like diarouga outright refused to provide recs lol
Perhaps we should require pro's to provide recordings to prove that a change is good instead of proving that a change is bad. I feel like more than half of all discussions are pro's trying to convince people certain changes are not good, instead of convincing people what changes are good.

In most cases, it feels like it's zoom against the world, which is obviously not how it should be. I would like to see those that agree with his changes uploading recordings proving that and those that don't agree suggesting relevant changes (which, I feel like, diarouga is doing).

That's a new issue we didn't have in the past.
Back then we would spend a lot of time discussing the changes before publishing a change list so most top players would agree with that list before the testing.

Currently we have a very very long change list and I really feel like I have to fight against each change one by one which is a lot of work.

I gave up on trying to explain why some changes are not good imo.
It takes me about 20min to write a complete comment. If I want 30 changes to be removed, that's 10 hours.
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
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04 Sep 2019, 15:49

Ye the balance process is becoming way too time consuming.
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United States of America Cometk
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04 Sep 2019, 15:54

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
edeholland wrote:
Cometk wrote:the thing is is that no evidence is actually being put forward, like diarouga outright refused to provide recs lol
Perhaps we should require pro's to provide recordings to prove that a change is good instead of proving that a change is bad. I feel like more than half of all discussions are pro's trying to convince people certain changes are not good, instead of convincing people what changes are good.

In most cases, it feels like it's zoom against the world, which is obviously not how it should be. I would like to see those that agree with his changes uploading recordings proving that and those that don't agree suggesting relevant changes (which, I feel like, diarouga is doing).

That's a new issue we didn't have in the past.
Back then we would spend a lot of time discussing the changes before publishing a change list so most top players would agree with that list before the testing.

Currently we have a very very long change list and I really feel like I have to fight against each change one by one which is a lot of work.

this is the exact purpose of the beta forum. keep in mind this is just a beta
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United States of America Cometk
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04 Sep 2019, 16:05

[Armag] diarouga wrote:Back then we would spend a lot of time discussing the changes before publishing a change list so most top players would agree with that list before the testing.

also this is exactly what happened with the beta change list
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
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04 Sep 2019, 16:07

the beta change list has 3x the amount of changes that we discussed beforehand tho
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France [Armag] diarouga
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Location: France

04 Sep 2019, 16:17

Cometk wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Show hidden quotes

That's a new issue we didn't have in the past.
Back then we would spend a lot of time discussing the changes before publishing a change list so most top players would agree with that list before the testing.

Currently we have a very very long change list and I really feel like I have to fight against each change one by one which is a lot of work.

this is the exact purpose of the beta forum. keep in mind this is just a beta

I know it is, but I'm not really willing to spend 10 hours arguing when I'm ignored and my concerns are called "non arguments".
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France [Armag] diarouga
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ESO: diarouga
Location: France

04 Sep 2019, 16:18

Cometk wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:Back then we would spend a lot of time discussing the changes before publishing a change list so most top players would agree with that list before the testing.

also this is exactly what happened with the beta change list

The other top players agreed with the chinese changes? Really? :O
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Argentina Riotcoke
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Location: Best County in the UK

04 Sep 2019, 16:44

Nobody plays Beta, trying to force people to playtest stuff when we have a big new tournament on doesn't really work in my eyes unfortunately. Like rouga is one of the only high level players not in the tourney.
Islas Malvinas son Britanicas
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Hungary Dsy
Lancer
Posts: 916

04 Sep 2019, 16:48

Whats the problem with china?
It will still FF so i dont think its colo will be better...
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Canada dansil92
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Posts: 659
ESO: dansil92

04 Sep 2019, 17:35

helln00 wrote:
If Keshik/Steppe army is to be available from the start, then it should be replacing the the current Ming army, which has always felt like an odd duck to me out of the army compositions, which is always roughly balanced with pike/bow cav/skirm and Cav/goon(cause meteor hammer has goon like effect when fighting with iron flails). The Ming army is the only one that has an explicitly anti cav composition and it makes it a completely unviable choice. Then instead of the Keshik buff, make the beiyang army into a colonial army card that also provides a buff as well.


There is always a single unit-type counter banner army. Ming is anticav, black flag (? The flame-arq) for anti infantry and the double cav OR keshik-hand mortar for anti artillery. ming is just problematic especially because its
a. Prohibitive wood cost
b. Pikes are useless in III/IV/V
c. Keshiks are the unit you want and you get too many pikes

The hand mortar-keshik combo is better but still faces similar problems to the ming army eg. Wood cost and far less useful unit. A meteor hammer- keshik or changdao-keshik would obviously be a far superior combination but would be probably too strong imo
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:hehe: :hehe: :hehe:
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Czech Republic EAGLEMUT
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04 Sep 2019, 19:08

umeu wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:https://clips.twitch.tv/ColdRenownedHawkWOOP


can we do something about this bug...? it's so random, sometimes the guardian attacks the closest thing, sometimes the one which shoots or attacks, sometimes some of the guardians split, one attacking the closest and the other the attacker =_=

So.. you're saying they act like angered tigers when you shoot at them? :hmm:
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momuuu wrote:theres no way eaglemut is truly a top player
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Turkey HUMMAN
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Posts: 741
ESO: HUMMAN

04 Sep 2019, 19:32

Port cass ups age2 dont get it, the civ is too much altered and cant see reason really. Spanish gold in age3 was a cool option, now i dont know what to say. i think EP team needs a perspective on meta and design. I feel like RE has better harmony between maps, that all maps have low hunts and some have TP's or not. In EP, there are high hunt TP maps and low hunt no TP maps which is broken honestly. It's like there're 2 seperate game modes. Make harmony between TP maps and non TP maps or remove non TP maps. Map makers will be sad but you have to act bold. I would QS in RE anyday rather than EP standart maps. Not to mention most EP maps have OP treasures which boost early market and buffs TP's unnecessarily. First determine the ground of building you will balance on, than start to tweak civs and things cause right now it looks like a mess. :flowers:
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No Flag RefluxSemantic
Skirmisher
Posts: 175

04 Sep 2019, 19:37

Dsy wrote:Whats the problem with china?
It will still FF so i dont think its colo will be better...

So look, China right now is not standard enough. What we want is to have a civ that's just like all other civs but the unit styles are basically just skins. So what they're going to do is to standardize their cavalry as much as possible and then you keep the banner thing but actually banner armies just kinda function like russia's armies which basically just function like the normal way of producing units. So then China is basically just France but with different skins and this is going to be good for the game because it will please the high council of zoiism that appreciates standardized units. It's basically like we're implementing aoe3's version of the metric system where everything is just a standardized version of eachother but we intend to actually make the imperial system and then you get this beautiful horrific lovechild of pure retardation combined with useless ocd and that's what china and the rest of aoe3 is going to be like.

So that's what the problem with china is and I'm happy that our great overlord mister Zoi the zoiist is there to smack down this last fortress of unstandardness. You know that feeling when you see some guy having selected some civ like France or British and you realize with 90% of the civs you try to select it will just be a sort of macro game and you both kinda boom up go to fortress and then theres this one fight where you just have ranged units shooting at eachother and all units are basically just reskins of eachother and then that fight is over and someone lost. You know that feeling? Well our overlord zoi is going to fucking trash that pussy 90% and he's going to make that one fucking hundred perfect of the match ups. Every fucking civ will be gloriously unified, it's like communisms wet dream but then better and you know what? Why the fuck isn't china the ultimate communist country being unified. How even dare those japs be unique? So yeah Zoi's taking out his hammer of intelligence, because Goodspeed has assured us in over a 100 posts that he's like the most intelligent guy ever, and then he takes his hammer and he just removes banner armies. BAM, one unique civ down, none to go.

Praise Zoi :chinese: :chinese: :chinese:
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United States of America Cometk
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Location: California

04 Sep 2019, 19:42

This is accurate
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Italy gamevideo113
Howdah
Posts: 1291
ESO: gamevideo113

04 Sep 2019, 20:29

Cometk wrote:This is accurate

Literally 100%
[Some people aspire to be pr30+, some people aspire to have fun, and some people aspire to play 3v3 Deccan.] - vividlyplain - 2019

Who (nationality) rape ?
stupid logic. noob players can say op?
toxic, Insult, Racism ?
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Malawi princeofcarthage
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Posts: 1812
ESO: Princeofcarthage
Location: Milky Way!

04 Sep 2019, 20:53

Well to be fair, zoi doesn't have enough resources and statistics, is working on wrong sense of relative balance, basic foundation isn't strong, there is no specific vision or a path, along with this top players aren't necessarily the best judges of balance, and AI isn't sophisticated enough to playtest the changes.
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No Flag deleted_user
Gendarme
Posts: 9997

05 Sep 2019, 00:55

EAGLEMUT wrote:
umeu wrote:
Hazza54321 wrote:https://clips.twitch.tv/ColdRenownedHawkWOOP


can we do something about this bug...? it's so random, sometimes the guardian attacks the closest thing, sometimes the one which shoots or attacks, sometimes some of the guardians split, one attacking the closest and the other the attacker =_=

So.. you're saying they act like angered tigers when you shoot at them? :hmm:


So... funnnyyyyy :uglylol:

If this game was so real, you think an elephant wouldnt attack a villager that threatened it?

It's just dumb. Can it be fixed or not?
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Kiribati SirCallen
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Posts: 8080
ESO: SirCallen
Location: Midwest best west

05 Sep 2019, 01:04

Idea: make beta opt-out rather than opt-in as default EP launch setting.
and the giving famishes the craving
sweet thames, run softly, til I end my song

The shepherd's staff's tantalus around my neck

let the water
touch the tongue
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Czech Republic EAGLEMUT
ESOC Dev Team
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ESO: EAGLEMUT
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05 Sep 2019, 05:20

umeu wrote:
EAGLEMUT wrote:
Show hidden quotes

So.. you're saying they act like angered tigers when you shoot at them? :hmm:


So... funnnyyyyy :uglylol:

If this game was so real, you think an elephant wouldnt attack a villager that threatened it?

It's just dumb. Can it be fixed or not?

It's not dumb, you just get punished for carelessly hanging around disturbed tigers. Makes perfect sense to me. You can easily beat this mechanic by not walking vills straight into a tiger fight.

There's nothing to fix here really, it's standard unit AI behavior.
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momuuu wrote:theres no way eaglemut is truly a top player
No Flag deleted_user
Gendarme
Posts: 9997

05 Sep 2019, 05:37

EAGLEMUT wrote:
umeu wrote:
Show hidden quotes


So... funnnyyyyy :uglylol:

If this game was so real, you think an elephant wouldnt attack a villager that threatened it?

It's just dumb. Can it be fixed or not?

It's not dumb, you just get punished for carelessly hanging around disturbed tigers. Makes perfect sense to me. You can easily beat this mechanic by not walking vills straight into a tiger fight.

There's nothing to fix here really, it's standard unit AI behavior.


actually its dumb because there isn't any logic to it. sometimes it attacks the closest unit, sometimes the attacker, sometimes it just splits. even if you have your units positioned in the correct way. i'm not talking only about vils randomly walking past a tiger, i'm also talking about when you have dog next to your hero for example...

but if you cant fix it, fine. but dont come with oh it makes sense IRL cuz its an angry tiger bs...
No Flag Imperial Noob
Lancer
Posts: 596
Location: dormant

05 Sep 2019, 06:13

Spanish gold feels fake. Could it be reverted to it's original value (galleons +50% HP and train +50% HP pirates) and just placed in age 2, where it belongs for every possible reason?
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United States of America Cometk
ESOC Media Team
Posts: 4193
ESO: DJ_Cometk
Location: California

05 Sep 2019, 08:13

I, too, agree that most of the games content should be unusable garbage
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Australia Kawapasaka
Lancer
Posts: 585
Location: Wales (new, south)

05 Sep 2019, 08:19

Yeah I don't see any problem with Spanish gold design-wise. There's already precedent for cards that alter shipment add-ons (for India at least I think?) and Spanish gold works fits very nicely thematically.
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Malawi princeofcarthage
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05 Sep 2019, 08:22

Cometk wrote:I, too, agree that most of the games content should be unusable garbage

why, why make unusable garbage in first place then, if you dont want diversity fine but dont steal from others.
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United States of America Cometk
ESOC Media Team
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05 Sep 2019, 08:28

princeofcarthage wrote:
Cometk wrote:I, too, agree that most of the games content should be unusable garbage

why, why make unusable garbage in first place then, if you dont want diversity fine but dont steal from others.

I was being a bit of a sarcastic dickhead to the commenter above me.

I like changes that make useless content useful in a tasteful way. Unfortunately it seems there are a lot of players who are content with 65% of cards and 30% of units being mostly unviable.
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