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France Kaiserklein
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Posts: 7855
Location: Paris
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21 Nov 2019, 14:51

@aqwer totally the opposite. Xp trickle would be a buff for otto because they rely on shipments more than most other civs, and can even afford 200w for a nat post with starting crates. Plus otto is one of the fastest civs so they can nat rush just fine. I actually think nat rush would become very hard to beat for a lot of civs on no tp vs otto now, probably too hard.
Can sirmusket calculate 5x - x??
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Norway aqwer
Dragoon
Posts: 239

21 Nov 2019, 15:06

Kaiserklein wrote:@aqwer totally the opposite. Xp trickle would be a buff for otto because they rely on shipments more than most other civs, and can even afford 200w for a nat post with starting crates. Plus otto is one of the fastest civs so they can nat rush just fine. I actually think nat rush would become very hard to beat for a lot of civs on no tp vs otto now, probably too hard.


I think it will not be that good because ottoman eco is weak and most native units are weak or bad as compared to their cost. But I would love to see that working like you said.
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France Kaiserklein
Gendarme
Posts: 7855
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

21 Nov 2019, 15:09

I mean, otto is probably the best civ for a nat rush currently, so I don't know what you mean. Otto eco isn't bad early on, since they don't pay for vils. And with the xp from the mosque and the nat post they would have the equivalent of more than a tp...

Ofc you would do it only on maps with good nats like incas or nootkas
Can sirmusket calculate 5x - x??
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
France chronique
Dragoon
Posts: 370
ESO: poissondu44
Location: France

21 Nov 2019, 15:20

I want see some nat rush just next to the tc :) . Otto noutka rush can kill your tc before your age up :D
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
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Posts: 7898
ESO: Garja

21 Nov 2019, 15:34

Mostly because they age fast. But ye, in general because of the nat card. Anyway this nat thing isnt a nerf to otto.
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Norway aqwer
Dragoon
Posts: 239

21 Nov 2019, 18:46

Another idea to make Otto more competitive on non tp maps:
Just let the mosque xp trickle get doubled with every age up till age IV. We can start from 0.5 xp/sec.
#trainableSpahi
No Flag RefluxSemantic
Dragoon
Posts: 441

21 Nov 2019, 18:49

Another idea to make Otto more competitive on non tp maps:
Stop making non TP maps. Taking away such a core strategic option in the game will never lead to better balance. It's like making maps where you can't build a barracks, or where you can't go to age 3. It just doesn't make sense and is always going to screw over some civs.
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Norway aqwer
Dragoon
Posts: 239

21 Nov 2019, 18:54

RefluxSemantic wrote:Another idea to make Otto more competitive on non tp maps:
Stop making non TP maps. Taking away such a core strategic option in the game will never lead to better balance. It's like making maps where you can't build a barracks, or where you can't go to age 3. It just doesn't make sense and is always going to screw over some civs.


I wouldn't say that bcz
1- it adds diversity in map pool
2- it is good for some civs as tp maps are good for some civs

I just want that every civ should have fighting chance.
#trainableSpahi
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New Zealand zoom
EP Project Lead
Posts: 8972
ESO: Funnu
Location: New_Sweland

21 Nov 2019, 20:29

Our fine developers Eaglemut and Kevsoft have managed to resolve a number of issues more, resulting in – among other things – the ability to implement an xp-trickle for native TPs (and through it a more optimal Germans nerf, too), and an improvement to the stun ability of monks (which will allow the Indian Heroes to properly use the ability on moving targets).

Please be advised that the beta will see at least one more update, before release. This update was conceived to resolve certain issues that became apparent after the release of the previous one.
Currently effective ESOC Patch notes

Some players: "190w is such an awkward and ugly cost for Villages; not at all like 135w for Manor Houses! Oh, and make Musketeer batches cost 281.25f, 93.75c again!

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China Zeke
Crossbow
Posts: 42
ESO: XYH
Location: China

23 Nov 2019, 03:24

A quick suggestion to the wall in the current patch, as the bastion is still sort of op in fortress.
Wall in age I and II, keeps as the same (1.5k hp, 1 LOS);
Wall in age III, auto-upgrade to the wall in RE (3k hp and 4 LOS), construction time increases 50% (the same time as the one after bastion in the current patch), bastion tech disabled;
Wall in age IV, able to tech bastion (cost also depends on the amount of wall built when upgrading the tech), cost of wall increases to 10w, construction time remains the same in the current patch (+50% compares to RE).
For example, if u built 10 wall segments when upgrading bastion, the cost will be 400w600c + 5*10w

Hope this can provide a solution to turtle behind the wall, and makes walls balanced in fortress as well
Belgium stanleywinston
Skirmisher
Donator 01
Posts: 191
ESO: Stanley_Winston
Location: Belgium

23 Nov 2019, 03:39

Are Agra Fort hotkeys fixed in this patch? I can't seem to get them working :D
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Czech Republic EAGLEMUT
ESOC Dev Team
Donator 05
Posts: 3606
ESO: EAGLEMUT
Location: [WPact]

23 Nov 2019, 03:54

stanleywinston wrote:Are Agra Fort hotkeys fixed in this patch? I can't seem to get them working :D

If you mean fixed as in disabled by anti-cheat or something, no, they are allowed.
If you mean fixed as in added to the game interface or something, also no.
Latvia harcha
Dragoon
Posts: 300
ESO: hatamoto_samurai

24 Nov 2019, 13:14

I really like the walls suggestion by Zeke, but with a changing bastion price to something like 600c + x*y w so that it is cheaper when you don't have any walls. maybe it would also make sense to make walls even more expensive post-bastion, your eco can probably afford this anyway in IV
No Flag RefluxSemantic
Dragoon
Posts: 441

24 Nov 2019, 15:08

aqwer wrote:
RefluxSemantic wrote:Another idea to make Otto more competitive on non tp maps:
Stop making non TP maps. Taking away such a core strategic option in the game will never lead to better balance. It's like making maps where you can't build a barracks, or where you can't go to age 3. It just doesn't make sense and is always going to screw over some civs.


I wouldn't say that bcz
1- it adds diversity in map pool
2- it is good for some civs as tp maps are good for some civs

I just want that every civ should have fighting chance.

So, and hear me out here, you could just balance for TP maps? Instead of trying to have half the civs good on non tp maps and half good on tp maps, because that makes little sense. Just make the game fun on the maps where there are the most options?
France chronique
Dragoon
Posts: 370
ESO: poissondu44
Location: France

24 Nov 2019, 16:08

Its obvious that if we want the most balence game, we need to add tp on all maps, some with 3/4 tp and some with only 2. But i am not sure it's on the table.
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Netherlands Goodspeed
Retired Contributor
EPL Reigning Champs
Posts: 8283

24 Nov 2019, 17:23

RefluxSemantic wrote:
aqwer wrote:
RefluxSemantic wrote:Another idea to make Otto more competitive on non tp maps:
Stop making non TP maps. Taking away such a core strategic option in the game will never lead to better balance. It's like making maps where you can't build a barracks, or where you can't go to age 3. It just doesn't make sense and is always going to screw over some civs.


I wouldn't say that bcz
1- it adds diversity in map pool
2- it is good for some civs as tp maps are good for some civs

I just want that every civ should have fighting chance.

So, and hear me out here, you could just balance for TP maps? Instead of trying to have half the civs good on non tp maps and half good on tp maps, because that makes little sense. Just make the game fun on the maps where there are the most options?
That's pretty much what the ep policy has been
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 7898
ESO: Garja

24 Nov 2019, 17:39

It makes absolute sense to have no TP maps too, since TP is just a part of the game and not the whole game. Dynamics on no TP maps are different and they're often even more interesting.
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Argentina Riotcoke
Jaeger
Donator 01
Posts: 2230
ESO: Riotcoke
Location: Best County in the UK

24 Nov 2019, 17:43

Garja wrote:It makes absolute sense to have no TP maps too, since TP is just a part of the game and not the whole game. Dynamics on no TP maps are different and they're often even more interesting.

Yes Russia India games over and over again are so interesting !
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Great Britain Hazza54321
Gendarme
Donator 01
Posts: 6386
ESO: PrinceofBabu

24 Nov 2019, 17:44

Garja wrote:It makes absolute sense to have no TP maps too, since TP is just a part of the game and not the whole game. Dynamics on no TP maps are different and they're often even more interesting.

If balance was better then sure.
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 7898
ESO: Garja

24 Nov 2019, 17:59

Balance isn't set in stone. What you and Riot refers to is just meta. I mean Russia isn't even that dominant on no TP maps and India is just India really.
TP only is a shit argument anyway. By the same logic all maps should have some water because otherwise some civs can't fully use their advantages.
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France Kaiserklein
Gendarme
Posts: 7855
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

24 Nov 2019, 20:43

We're always balancing on standard maps first, since it's the majority of maps and, well, it's our standards. Meanwhile trying to tweak some stuff on the less standard maps to make them a bit more balanced without breaking the standard maps balance. Can't really do much more than that.
While it's not possible to balance on all kinds of maps, removing all the non standard maps (no tp, 5 tp, low res...) would just be boring as fuck. Might as well play on arkansas every game then.

But yeah, hopefully we find ways to make more civs viable on these non standard maps. That's what zoi is trying to do with his native post xp trickle change (though I dislike the change itself) for no tp maps, and that's what happened with 70w boats for water maps. We need to keep going in that direction.
Can sirmusket calculate 5x - x??
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
China juicyfruit1268
Crossbow
Posts: 19
ESO: Torie

24 Nov 2019, 20:46

Cometk wrote:
EAGLEMUT wrote:- Fixed an issue that prevented players from hosting Deathmatch games.
Image

Haha
France chronique
Dragoon
Posts: 370
ESO: poissondu44
Location: France

24 Nov 2019, 20:59

Garja wrote:Balance isn't set in stone. What you and Riot refers to is just meta. I mean Russia isn't even that dominant on no TP maps and India is just India really.
TP only is a shit argument anyway. By the same logic all maps should have some water because otherwise some civs can't fully use their advantages.


The meta argument is a joke, german have a bonus based on xp, russian not, so is cleary not a meta probleme if tp map is better for german rather than russia.
And the same logic can be applied for water, the fact is not so many peaple abuse of that, but if some civ are broken on water and bad on land, that can be a probleme.

So or the tp and water are designed to be viable but not necessary for any civ, or the game will continue to be unbalanced.
Belgium stanleywinston
Skirmisher
Donator 01
Posts: 191
ESO: Stanley_Winston
Location: Belgium

24 Nov 2019, 21:14

EAGLEMUT wrote:
stanleywinston wrote:Are Agra Fort hotkeys fixed in this patch? I can't seem to get them working :D

If you mean fixed as in disabled by anti-cheat or something, no, they are allowed.
If you mean fixed as in added to the game interface or something, also no.


Is it possible to implement it in the patch?
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 7898
ESO: Garja

24 Nov 2019, 23:18

chronique wrote:
Garja wrote:Balance isn't set in stone. What you and Riot refers to is just meta. I mean Russia isn't even that dominant on no TP maps and India is just India really.
TP only is a shit argument anyway. By the same logic all maps should have some water because otherwise some civs can't fully use their advantages.


The meta argument is a joke, german have a bonus based on xp, russian not, so is cleary not a meta probleme if tp map is better for german rather than russia.
And the same logic can be applied for water, the fact is not so many peaple abuse of that, but if some civ are broken on water and bad on land, that can be a probleme.

So or the tp and water are designed to be viable but not necessary for any civ, or the game will continue to be unbalanced.

No civ is broken on TP and bad on non TP and same for water/no water.

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