A suggestion for balancing non-TP maps

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France [Armag] diarouga
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Re: A suggestion for balancing non-TP maps

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Goodspeed wrote:It doesn't have to be a big number. And if any native tribe would become OP as a result, just nerf it

If it's not a big enough number (50-60% of a TP at least), you won't solve the no TP map issue.
If it's more than that (like 65-70%), taking the native TPs will be a must and it will become a balance issue.

You also have to keep in mind that the ESOC maps weren't designed for that. Thus, it's going to create issues on some maps where only one player will be able to take the TPs (like Thar Desert).
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Italy gamevideo113
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Re: A suggestion for balancing non-TP maps

Post by gamevideo113 »

Imo nerfing TPs is not the way to go. I'd rather buff the civs that struggle on no tp maps any day. Nerfing TPs would have such a huge impact on the whole game :cry:

On the native posts idea: I think we can find some different civ specific solution, without adding xp trickles to the natives. Not a huge fan of the idea, although i think it wouldn't be the worst way to fix the issue.
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Re: A suggestion for balancing non-TP maps

Post by Peachrocks »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:It doesn't have to be a big number. And if any native tribe would become OP as a result, just nerf it

If it's not a big enough number (50-60% of a TP at least), you won't solve the no TP map issue.
If it's more than that (like 65-70%), taking the native TPs will be a must and it will become a balance issue.

You also have to keep in mind that the ESOC maps weren't designed for that. Thus, it's going to create issues on some maps where only one player will be able to take the TPs (like Thar Desert).


Thar Desert probably should be changed. It’s the only map in the game that has just one TP and it’s one of the weakest native groups in the game as if it was deliberately made to be ignored.

Furthermore considering how drastically different balance is on non TP vs TP, attempting to do something to alleviate this should be strongly considered. I get you are against it because natives are an aspect of the game you don’t understand and even I myself am unsure of whether this is a good idea but here’s the funny thing about this. No change is permanent. If we don’t try this, we will never know.
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Canada Mitoe
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Re: A suggestion for balancing non-TP maps

Post by Mitoe »

It probably WAS made to be ignored to be honest. That TP is designed to function more as an obstacle than anything else. I don’t really think that’s a bad thing, either.
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Re: A suggestion for balancing non-TP maps

Post by Shikari »

Does having more xp treasure on a no tp map helps. I know other civ can also pick them up but maybe treasure can be so that it is easier and less risky for euro civs to pick them who have crack shot rather than tad civs. Since India and Japan don't require tp and China do make one but it's not a absolute. But even then Russia and dutch would still be better since same explorer I guess.
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Re: A suggestion for balancing non-TP maps

Post by Riotcoke »

Peachrocks wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Goodspeed wrote:It doesn't have to be a big number. And if any native tribe would become OP as a result, just nerf it

If it's not a big enough number (50-60% of a TP at least), you won't solve the no TP map issue.
If it's more than that (like 65-70%), taking the native TPs will be a must and it will become a balance issue.

You also have to keep in mind that the ESOC maps weren't designed for that. Thus, it's going to create issues on some maps where only one player will be able to take the TPs (like Thar Desert).


Thar Desert probably should be changed. It’s the only map in the game that has just one TP and it’s one of the weakest native groups in the game as if it was deliberately made to be ignored.

Furthermore considering how drastically different balance is on non TP vs TP, attempting to do something to alleviate this should be strongly considered. I get you are against it because natives are an aspect of the game you don’t understand and even I myself am unsure of whether this is a good idea but here’s the funny thing about this. No change is permanent. If we don’t try this, we will never know.

Yes there's only one tp and it's meant to be ignored. It's a desert, it's not going to be scattered with villagers. Also please don't belittle people saying they don't know about natives as a point.
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Re: A suggestion for balancing non-TP maps

Post by helln00 »

Instead of an xp trickle, how about a tech or a card that is basically mercentalism but based on how much native tps you have?

Mercentalism is considered pretty strong since its potentially 2 to 3 shipment and thats only like in age 4 where the its already harder to get shipments.

a tech that is mercentalism that gives like 500-1k xp in age 2 could be a way to allow tp civs to fight in non-tp map, albiet for a limited time
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Re: A suggestion for balancing non-TP maps

Post by Peachrocks »

Riotcoke wrote:
Peachrocks wrote:
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Thar Desert probably should be changed. It’s the only map in the game that has just one TP and it’s one of the weakest native groups in the game as if it was deliberately made to be ignored.

Furthermore considering how drastically different balance is on non TP vs TP, attempting to do something to alleviate this should be strongly considered. I get you are against it because natives are an aspect of the game you don’t understand and even I myself am unsure of whether this is a good idea but here’s the funny thing about this. No change is permanent. If we don’t try this, we will never know.

Yes there's only one tp and it's meant to be ignored. It's a desert, it's not going to be scattered with villagers. Also please don't belittle people saying they don't know about natives as a point.


Well, honestly as you know I was a bit fed up of having my work and calculations be derailed by someone who tried to argue that Comanche Horse Archers were comparable to War Wagons. I'll call a spade a spade ;). It's a moot point now though. I'm done with my threads and 'lobbying' so I can get back to actually respecting the talents the man does have.

The irony is though, that Diarouga himself refers to the map as trash desert. I kinda agree with Garja in the fact maps shouldn't be given such nick names but in terms of strategic diversity, it's pretty friggin' abysmal. Yes, that's sort of the point but in consequence games there are pretty stale.
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Hungary Dsy
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Re: A suggestion for balancing non-TP maps

Post by Dsy »

If i had to balance them, i would:
-Move tp into age 2
-Buff all civs age 3 politicians cost/research time

This way there is no need for tp to going age 3.

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