Rename the Russian musketeers?

Should Russian musketeers get renamed?

(yes) Rename to Rusketeers? OR another name similar
25
27%
No
28
30%
Garja Option
35
37%
#ModTheEar
6
6%
 
Total votes: 94

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Re: Rename the Russian musketeers?

Post by zoom »

dansil92 wrote:
Papist wrote:
dansil92 wrote:Russian halberdiers: am i a joke to you
Yes
Not only are they among the worst units, but they get 20% nerf and train in fours lol

F O U R
Are you aware that Russians' infantry batches come with a 25% cost reduction? You seem to have left that out.
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Re: Rename the Russian musketeers?

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Post by Interjection »

They are still musketeers, I don't think the name should be changed. It's fun to call them ruskets on stream but that doesn't mean we need to change the name
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Re: Rename the Russian musketeers?

Post by gamevideo113 »

The fact that they have the same unit skin and name is a bit misleading considering their different stats. A different name could be warranted, but it should still have “musketeer”/“halberdier” in it. Kaiser’s suggestion sounds alright.
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Re: Rename the Russian musketeers?

Post by Interjection »

I don't think it's misleading, Russia's whole schtick is they field lots of weaker & cheaper versions of other units
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Re: Rename the Russian musketeers?

Post by Sargsyan »

i thought this was a troll thread
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Re: Rename the Russian musketeers?

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Post by jesus3 »

Sargsyan wrote:i thought this was a troll thread
same. If you were to rename them, just do it in fashion with Cyrillic Letters

Change:

Мушкетер to Рушкетер [Mushketer to Rushketer] = Musketeer to Rusketeer
алебардщик to блятьебардщик [Alebardchik to Blyatebardchik] = Halberdier to Blyatberdier

and vice versa
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Re: Rename the Russian musketeers?

Post by scarm »

Please don't rename the russian infantry unit for no reason whatsoever. It is Russias Civ-Bonus that their infantry is cheaper but weaker, that is not misleading at all. Otherwise you'd also have to rename dutch vills because they differ slightly in cost for example.
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Re: Rename the Russian musketeers?

Post by dansil92 »

zoom wrote:
dansil92 wrote:
Show hidden quotes
Not only are they among the worst units, but they get 20% nerf and train in fours lol

F O U R
Are you aware that Russians' infantry batches come with a 25% cost reduction? You seem to have left that out.
But halbs are "veteran" by default, but the 20% weaker is on the default vet status, not its imaginary colonial stats. This makes them weaker and actually not more cost effective, unlike musks. They are punished with the weak-cheap unlike the musks which have an advantage
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Re: Rename the Russian musketeers?

Post by bittersalt123 »

Sargsyan wrote:i thought this was a troll thread
I would NEVER do such a thing.
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Re: Rename the Russian musketeers?

Post by bittersalt123 »

scarm wrote:Please don't rename the russian infantry unit for no reason whatsoever. It is Russias Civ-Bonus that their infantry is cheaper but weaker, that is not misleading at all. Otherwise you'd also have to rename dutch vills because they differ slightly in cost for example.
Dutch vills have same gather rates to other vills in their class. Settler Wagons and CDB get different names for example.
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Re: Rename the Russian musketeers?

Post by scarm »

No they don't dutch vills gather coin faster.
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Re: Rename the Russian musketeers?

Post by edeholland »

bittersalt123 wrote:
scarm wrote:Please don't rename the russian infantry unit for no reason whatsoever. It is Russias Civ-Bonus that their infantry is cheaper but weaker, that is not misleading at all. Otherwise you'd also have to rename dutch vills because they differ slightly in cost for example.
Dutch vills have same gather rates to other vills in their class. Settler Wagons and CDB get different names for example.
Except for mining coin. Dutch villagers mine coin at a rate of 0.69 gold per second instead of 0.60 coin per second.
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Re: Rename the Russian musketeers?

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Post by edeholland »

Which is why a Dutch villager should just be called "Handelaar".
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Re: Rename the Russian musketeers?

Post by bittersalt123 »

edeholland wrote:
bittersalt123 wrote:
scarm wrote:Please don't rename the russian infantry unit for no reason whatsoever. It is Russias Civ-Bonus that their infantry is cheaper but weaker, that is not misleading at all. Otherwise you'd also have to rename dutch vills because they differ slightly in cost for example.
Dutch vills have same gather rates to other vills in their class. Settler Wagons and CDB get different names for example.
Except for mining coin. Dutch villagers mine coin at a rate of 0.69 gold per second instead of 0.60 coin per second.
rofl I've never knew that before. Seriously? wow lol
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Re: Rename the Russian musketeers?

Post by Kaiserklein »

Yeah, dutch vils both have a different cost, and 15% faster coin gathering, yet they don't have a different name.
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Re: Rename the Russian musketeers?

Post by bittersalt123 »

Kaiserklein wrote:Yeah, dutch vils both have a different cost, and 15% faster coin gathering, yet they don't have a different name.
I guess the EP team has a lot of renaming to do then.
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Re: Rename the Russian musketeers?

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Post by Kaiserklein »

Or we can stop nitpicking and keep these names as they're totally fine
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Re: Rename the Russian musketeers?

Post by edeholland »

To be honest, it's kinda weird that every royal guard upgrade has a unique name (Voltigeurs, Needle Gunners) when they have the exact same stats, while units with different stats can have the same name (Halbediers, Musketeers, Settlers).

It's way worse in AoE2 though, where units have different stats without any explanation other than the tech tree. Same skin, name & cost but different stats.
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Re: Rename the Russian musketeers?

Post by bittersalt123 »

Kaiserklein wrote:Or we can stop nitpicking and keep these names as they're totally fine
ya they're totally fine but they don't keep up with the AOE3 culture. I guess I view it differently
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Re: Rename the Russian musketeers?

Post by zoom »

dansil92 wrote:
zoom wrote:
Show hidden quotes
Are you aware that Russians' infantry batches come with a 25% cost reduction? You seem to have left that out.
But halbs are "veteran" by default, but the 20% weaker is on the default vet status, not its imaginary colonial stats. This makes them weaker and actually not more cost effective, unlike musks. They are punished with the weak-cheap unlike the musks which have an advantage
As far as I understand your logic, it is completely mistaken. The Russian Halberdier isn't penalized any more than the Russian Musketeer is—unless its upgrades are based on the statistics of the Russian version of the unit, unlike is the case with the Musketeer, whose upgrades are based on the statistics of the regular unit. That is not your argument, though.
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Re: Rename the Russian musketeers?

Post by zoom »

bittersalt123 wrote:
edeholland wrote:
Show hidden quotes
Except for mining coin. Dutch villagers mine coin at a rate of 0.69 gold per second instead of 0.60 coin per second.
rofl I've never knew that before. Seriously? wow lol
Remember what I said about lack of knowledge?
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Re: Rename the Russian musketeers?

Post by bittersalt123 »

@zoom I'm going to refer my response to the President of the United States.

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Re: Rename the Russian musketeers?

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Post by dansil92 »

zoom wrote:
dansil92 wrote:
Show hidden quotes
But halbs are "veteran" by default, but the 20% weaker is on the default vet status, not its imaginary colonial stats. This makes them weaker and actually not more cost effective, unlike musks. They are punished with the weak-cheap unlike the musks which have an advantage
As far as I understand your logic, it is completely mistaken. The Russian Halberdier isn't penalized any more than the Russian Musketeer is—unless its upgrades are based on the statistics of the Russian version of the unit, unlike is the case with the Musketeer, whose upgrades are based on the statistics of the regular unit. That is not your argument, though.

I'll have to use numbers here i guess.

Ok so the russian musketeer is 20% weaker than its colonial stats, but 25% cheaper, thus cost effective in trades vs other musks. Since upgrades stack on base colonial statistics, the later game you go the more effective this cost discrepancy becomes.
( In imperial vs imperial with uncarded musks vs uncarded musks the russian ones are only 4.6 attack less and 30 hp less (30hp/300hp is 10% weaker) but still 25% cheaper

Russian Halberdiers take a penalty to their stats on their FORTRESS stats making them effectively 24% weaker (1.2x 20%) but 25% cheaper
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Re: Rename the Russian musketeers?

Post by Kaiserklein »

Yeah, basically you gotta work on fortress stats to figure this out. A vet rusket has 150 hp, while a regular vet musket has 180 hp. So the regular musket has only 20% more hp. Meanwhile, a vet russian halb has 160 hp, while a regular vet halb has 200 hp, which is 25% more hp. So yeah, the russian halb is just quite worse. However, the russian halb will still scale well with upgrades, because these upgrades apply on regular halbs stats.
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Re: Rename the Russian musketeers?

Post by dansil92 »

^
So if we want to make russian halbs even remotely viable (not only are halbs a bad unit generally but you actually have actual penalty for training them) thry need to be 1/1.2 = 5/6 reduction in stats instead of 20% (approx 17% weaker) or 30% (25% × 1.2) cheaper

To bring them in line with musks. Jus sayin
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