[EP] Change the Dutch flag

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Netherlands Mr_Bramboy
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[EP] Change the Dutch flag

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

With EP7 fully in development, let's take a look at a lesser-known flag in this game and why it's completely wrong.

Most of us will probably recognize the classic red-white-blue Dutch flag that's being used by the modern-day Kingdom of the Netherlands. As you're probably aware, the Dutch in AoE3 use a different flag.

I'm honestly not sure why the developers decided to use this flag. Perhaps they saw it in a movie once. It's one of the more obscure flags in the history of the Netherlands and it represents the navy flag of the ministry of defense. Most paintings from the early modern period depict other flags. You can see the AoE3 flag in a few paintings; this is because high-ranked military leaders commanded those ships, which rarely and only during big navy battles occurred. The flag is so obscure that googling the image of the flag will result in more AoE3-related content than content related to the actual flag.

Proposal: change the Dutch flag to the actual flag at the time: the Prinsjesvlag. Alternatively, use the West India Company flag. Anything is better than the current flag.
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Re: [EP] Change the Dutch flag

Post by jesus3 »

Honest, wholehearted smile appears.
Do it!
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Re: [EP] Change the Dutch flag

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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

I'm against it. Please, keep EP close to the original game :devil:
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Re: [EP] Change the Dutch flag

Post by Imperial Noob »

Cool. Just don't discuss it too much. Simply change it, and everyone will get over an old flag within 2 days.
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Re: [EP] Change the Dutch flag

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:I'm against it. Please, keep EP close to the original game :devil:
This post is bad and you should feel bad.
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Re: [EP] Change the Dutch flag

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Post by Googol »

:flowers: You could aswell rename Germany into Prussia, while you are it.
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Re: [EP] Change the Dutch flag

Post by Riotcoke »

By the same degree the imperial age is set in the middle of the 19th century so the British flag should be different, the French Flag should be different, The Indian Flag should be different, The spanish flag wouldn't be the cross of burgundy.
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Re: [EP] Change the Dutch flag

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

Riotcoke wrote:By the same degree the imperial age is set in the middle of the 19th century so the British flag should be different, the French Flag should be different, The Indian Flag should be different, The spanish flag wouldn't be the cross of burgundy.
That is a time technicality. This flag is just blatantly wrong.
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Re: [EP] Change the Dutch flag

Post by Riotcoke »

It actually is a real flag btw. It's a Dutch Ensign of foot. http://www.thewartourist.com/paysbas.html Here's a really shit website showing it. Also the website has a nice Eu2 photo on it.
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Re: [EP] Change the Dutch flag

Post by scarm »

According to german wikipedia this is a "a variant of the prinsenvlag that was commonly used".
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Re: [EP] Change the Dutch flag

Post by zoom »

If only there were a game-file available with an alternative!
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Re: [EP] Change the Dutch flag

Post by Imperial Noob »

Googol wrote::flowers: You could aswell rename Germany into Prussia, while you are it.
What about doppelsoldners, crossbowmen, war wagons & HRE mercs?
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Re: [EP] Change the Dutch flag

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

zoom wrote:If only there were a game-file available with an alternative!
Could you elaborate on the problem of replacing the flag? AFAIK EP currently uses HD-models of the original flags, so I figured it'd theoretically be possible to change the flags.
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Re: [EP] Change the Dutch flag

Post by Rikikipu »

I think he is ironical : you probably can already do that right now without needing EP7
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Re: [EP] Change the Dutch flag

Post by Lukas_L99 »

Googol wrote::flowers: You could aswell rename Germany into Prussia, while you are it.
Well, the Germans in AoE3 aren't only Prussia as it wasn't a unified state at that time and consisted of many smaller German states. I guess the developers also included Austria and Bohemia in the AoE3 Germans (war wagons were used by the Hussites etc). So they came up with some fantasy flag similar to the Prussian one.
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Re: [EP] Change the Dutch flag

Post by Thrar »

Not all of the game's civilizations are actual empires, some of them are more like cultural groups with loose political bonds, if any. Germany in that time period is one of those, it just stands out because all the other European civs are political entities.
In that sense, I see Germany as similar to Iroquois, Sioux, and somewhat arguably Aztecs and India.

Depending on where in the time period the flag comes from, a Holy Roman flag or a Prussian flag both make sense to me. Even with e.g. France you could argue between the tricolore or the fleur-de-lis, since either was in use at some points during the game's time period.
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Re: [EP] Change the Dutch flag

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Post by Mitoe »

Wasn't this flag quite common in the early years of the Dutch Republic / United Provinces? I believe the AI personality--Maurice of Nassau--was a national leader around that time as well, which might give some more credibility to this flag choice?

Also, the ministry of defense flag looks slightly different from this flag (which is called the Double Statenvlag, I believe)--at least as far as I can tell.

Ministry of Defense Flag
Image

Double Princevlag (AoE3)
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(Apparently this is sometimes called the Double Statenvlag, and sometimes the stripes were tripled rather than merely doubled)



Edit: apparently a white stripe was sometimes added between the two Statenvlags, which would make it identical to the Ministry of Defense flag. At this point I'm just confused, but I still think there is some historical context for this to be the flag of choice.

Edit2: https://historicalflags.tumblr.com/post ... princevlag
https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/nl_prvlg.html
http://www.exchangerate.com/country-fla ... -flag.html



Edit3 (Conclusion): So apparently it was not uncommon to see a 6-stripe Prince's Flag back in the early days of the Dutch Republic. I'm not sure what prompted the developers at Ensemble to choose the 6-stripe over the 3 or 9 striped version, but I think it looks cool, and I don't really see any need to change it.
Edit4
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Re: [EP] Change the Dutch flag

Post by zoom »

Mr_Bramboy wrote:
zoom wrote:If only there were a game-file available with an alternative!
Could you elaborate on the problem of replacing the flag? AFAIK EP currently uses HD-models of the original flags, so I figured it'd theoretically be possible to change the flags.
AFAIK EP only uses images found in the game-files for flags; the game files featured higher quality images that were previously unused. I doubt the game-files contain one that reflects your suggestion.

I mean that if you use an image from outside of the game, I suspect it's going to look out of line.
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Re: [EP] Change the Dutch flag

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

Good research @Mitoe. Looks like the flag was slightly more prevalent than I thought. It's still an ugly and non-primary flag though so I stand by my original suggestion

@zoom I didn't know the HD flags were already in the game. Can we at least try to use an image from outside the game and see how it looks? It shouldn't be that hard to crop a flag to the correct resolution.
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Re: [EP] Change the Dutch flag

Post by Googol »

Lukas_L99 wrote:
Googol wrote::flowers: You could aswell rename Germany into Prussia, while you are it.
Well, the Germans in AoE3 aren't only Prussia as it wasn't a unified state at that time and consisted of many smaller German states. I guess the developers also included Austria and Bohemia in the AoE3 Germans (war wagons were used by the Hussites etc). So they came up with some fantasy flag similar to the Prussian one.
You are talking about the Holy Roman Empire, which still existed in that time period. Or maybe you mean the German confederation, you could aswell pick one of these and rename the civ completely + replace it with appropriate flag. Also one thing that boggles my mind, is why are hussite war wagons used in the early 15th century present in a 18th to early 19th century based game.
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Re: [EP] Change the Dutch flag

Post by Lukas_L99 »

Googol wrote:
Lukas_L99 wrote:
Googol wrote::flowers: You could aswell rename Germany into Prussia, while you are it.
Well, the Germans in AoE3 aren't only Prussia as it wasn't a unified state at that time and consisted of many smaller German states. I guess the developers also included Austria and Bohemia in the AoE3 Germans (war wagons were used by the Hussites etc). So they came up with some fantasy flag similar to the Prussian one.
You are talking about the Holy Roman Empire, which still existed in that time period. Or maybe you mean the German confederation, you could aswell pick one of these and rename the civ completely + replace it with appropriate flag. Also one thing that boggles my mind, is why are hussite war wagons used in the early 15th century present in a 18th to early 19th century based game.
Holy Roman Empire and the time after that (HRE only lasted until 1806, AoE3 goes further than that), the AoE3 time span covers many different variations of German States. And yeah the War Wagon thing is weird.
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Re: [EP] Change the Dutch flag

Post by Googol »

Lukas_L99 wrote:
Googol wrote:
Show hidden quotes
You are talking about the Holy Roman Empire, which still existed in that time period. Or maybe you mean the German confederation, you could aswell pick one of these and rename the civ completely + replace it with appropriate flag. Also one thing that boggles my mind, is why are hussite war wagons used in the early 15th century present in a 18th to early 19th century based game.
Holy Roman Empire and the time after that (HRE only lasted until 1806, AoE3 goes further than that), the AoE3 time span covers many different variations of German States. And yeah the War Wagon thing is weird.
You have people like Frederick the Great and Napoleon in the same game. Yes aoe goes further than that probably but it still existed never the less, atleast in the early ages or idk how would you compare, this game is weird on plenty of aspects in regards to historical accuracy.

And dont even get me started on Ivan the Terrible lol
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Re: [EP] Change the Dutch flag

Post by lordraphael »

hisotrical accuracy in a video game... even a game like eu4 is in no way historical accurate. Why even bother talking about it. and the hussite war wagons were stationary defenses. i wonder why thats no one bothering ?
breeze wrote: they cant even guess how much f***ing piece of stupid retarded they look they are trying to give lesson to people who are over pr35 and know the best mu. im pretty sure that we need a page that only pr30+ post and then we could have a nice discussins.
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Re: [EP] Change the Dutch flag

Post by iCourt »

Mr_Bramboy wrote:Good research @Mitoe. Looks like the flag was slightly more prevalent than I thought. It's still an ugly and non-primary flag though so I stand by my original suggestion

@zoom I didn't know the HD flags were already in the game. Can we at least try to use an image from outside the game and see how it looks? It shouldn't be that hard to crop a flag to the correct resolution.
Flags were a mod from Lord Tahattu's he allowed us to utilize. It's just cleaned up cleaner images for the expansion civs.
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Re: [EP] Change the Dutch flag

Post by zoom »

Ah, so that's the deal. Just another reason to thank iCourt!

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