RefluxSemantic wrote:Zoi also came up with all the bullshit changes? How can you praise someone for making a 100 mistakes and fixing like 90 of them. That means he still made 10 mistakes.
and that's the patch philosophy in a nutshell. Push 100 stupid changes. Be very adamant about all of them. Have a lot of backlash. Fix 90 of them. Congrats, you made 10 ridiculous changes. Repeat this for a few patches and you've ruined what was once a good balance patch.
You're forgetting about the good changes though. Let's not exaggerate.
Of course but with a better EP process, we would only have these good changes.
No you wouldn't. We had pretty much exactly the process you're talking about with ASFP and still made many bad changes. And again, that was without all the bad blood between players that we have here.
ASFP was a different meta and different players, so it would work in a different way.
The first versions of EP were very successful with the minimal changes from RE policy and no standardization. EP has been steadily improving with only good changes (only the Sioux teepee change was questionable actually), and it would have been the same without a policy change.
It's only bad blood if you don't break the vicious circle. Compromise is still a possibility.
As much as I like Zoi and his work, in the end he is holding all of the cards. He gets to make the changes that he wants, players have no say in it. So it is on Zoi to go towards more compromise. The players are already maxed out in terms of what they can do; if diarouga says smt, that's one thing. If Mitoe is also a bit frustrated with things..... well need I say more?
Goodspeed wrote:We had pretty much exactly the process you're talking about with ASFP and still made many bad changes. And again, that was without all the bad blood between players that we have here.
That's because they didn't care about game design and solely about shoehorning the same meta, as in Colonial-only gameplay, full greed-style, full marketupgrades all the time. You barely saw people even reaching Fortress.
Lol writing a big wall of text just to say that the critics are subjective and emotional which is incompatible with Zoi's autism? You people really like making things complicated
Assemble a team of 5 players, being the ZOOM (current EP leader) and 4 more top players who are willing to help.
Any changes will need a minimum of 3 votes to be applied.
Open a general suggestion topic for all players to give their opinions.
Criticizing someone's work for a step that was not good is easy, but to help who would volunteer for this EP team?
Assemble a team of 5 players, being the ZOOM (current EP leader) and 4 more top players who are willing to help.
Any changes will need a minimum of 3 votes to be applied.
Open a general suggestion topic for all players to give their opinions.
Criticizing someone's work for a step that was not good is easy, but to help who would volunteer for this EP team?
Tbh a lot of criticism also comes from people who have helped in the past..
Assemble a team of 5 players, being the ZOOM (current EP leader) and 4 more top players who are willing to help.
Any changes will need a minimum of 3 votes to be applied.
Open a general suggestion topic for all players to give their opinions.
Criticizing someone's work for a step that was not good is easy, but to help who would volunteer for this EP team?
Tbh a lot of criticism also comes from people who have helped in the past..
Ok, but if now there are no volunteers to "help do better" then it means that the only person who wants to do it is already working.
I would be a volunteer, but I'm a long way from being a top player.
Assemble a team of 5 players, being the ZOOM (current EP leader) and 4 more top players who are willing to help.
Any changes will need a minimum of 3 votes to be applied.
Open a general suggestion topic for all players to give their opinions.
Criticizing someone's work for a step that was not good is easy, but to help who would volunteer for this EP team?
Tbh a lot of criticism also comes from people who have helped in the past..
Ok, but if now there are no volunteers to "help do better" then it means that the only person who wants to do it is already working.
I would be a volunteer, but I'm a long way from being a top player.
I think these people don't want to volunteer because of the ep system. Just imagine putting your free time working on patch changes, but then most of the time you get vetoed by this dictator style leader that doesn't actually have real skills in the game. Just imagine how fucking frustrating that would be.
I usually don't really make long comments or type anything useful in these forums other than complain about 180 HP Uhlans, but reading this and these discussions, I feel obligated as the 'father of ESOC' (memes) to actually write something and state my opinion.
The recent issues with the balance implementations have in my opinion the same issue I personally had with ESOC in the very beginning. Back then, I had my personal view on things and what ESOC should evolve into, but this clashed with others' views and I still have a different view on some aspects of ESOC. However, as the so said 'creator' of ESOC, I stepped down back then and let the people, as a team, who knew better than me (and they definitely did) take over and guide the community to where it is now. I couldn't be more satisfied with the decision I made back then. I'm not saying Zoi should take a step back from the EP. He already has put an invaluable amount of work into the patch and I would love to see him keep doing it, but I do think that a small team of 4-5 high level players (with a lot of diversity in playstyle and vision) should be in charge of the balance changes (in -or excluding him). The community has matured a lot since 2014 and thus it should be possible to make it work.
Zoi, being the only person in charge, will always receive the 'hate' from players that don't agree with changes he implemented, and he definitely does not deserve that at all. Blaming one person for a shitty change is super easy as you can just point and click. Blaming a team is non-direct. Saying that "a team creating a patch has the same issues as one person making the patch" is absolutely correct. You will indeed still have a patch with major balance issues, but at least you have to blame a team and don't have to trash on a guy who has put his time and effort into it. All major achievements are made by a team and not by a sole person (mathematical excluded and even still) there is no denying in that.
In conclusion: Zoi has put in a lot of great work, time and effort, but it is time now that you move away from him being in charge of a patch that still hundreds of people play and might be played by several thousands soon on DE. You can not put the responsibility of this into one person's hands, that is not fair towards him nor the community. In the end, we all want the same thing, a good patch (and there have already been several of these).
UrvyZnapy wrote:Lol writing a big wall of text just to say that the critics are subjective and emotional which is incompatible with Zoi's autism? You people really like making things complicated
You’re totally off.
[Some people aspire to be pr30+, some people aspire to have fun, and some people aspire to play 3v3 Deccan.] - vividlyplain - 2019Who (nationality) rape ?
stupid logic. noob players can say op?
toxic, Insult, Racism ?
Assemble a team of 5 players, being the ZOOM (current EP leader) and 4 more top players who are willing to help.
Any changes will need a minimum of 3 votes to be applied.
Open a general suggestion topic for all players to give their opinions.
Criticizing someone's work for a step that was not good is easy, but to help who would volunteer for this EP team?
I am quite sure that the top players who criticize would volunteer for this EP team. As Jerom said, we've helped with EP in the past.
I would volunteer for sure.
I dont want design changes. For every positive dezign change there is a handful of negative one. If I look at ep I am sad that I had to lose things I enjoy because it didnt fit in the definition of fun that gs/zoi have. I want balanced RE gameplay, because if one thing is certain its that we all enjoy RE (except zoi, he seems to hate this game).
