EP 8.0.x Beta [RELEASED-LIVE]

[chronique]

First feeling about spain :

Tbh i got used to the +2 range and after a couple of game (thx @Kawapasaka ) its looks like the +2 range was more important than +*1 ^^. Now your unit block each other and its realy frutrating.
If you add the nerf rodo, lancer/rodo are not great now.

Also the xp bonus was hard to handle by myself because after each fight i have more than 2 shipements unused.

At the end after 4-5 games, not sure if ep8 buff spain ^^ (because its a big nerf of lancer/rodo overall + less atp abusing and not sure if the xp buff make a big difference because i have the feeling than you can't realy used it).

Need more practise, and need more feedback from top level as well.

[dansil92]

Besteiro ranged attack damage updated to 16 (from 18); multipliers updated to x2 vs Light Cavalry & Arrow Knight, x0.75 vs Cavalry & Coyoteman, x1.25 vs Heavy Infantry (from x1.5 vs Light Cavalry & Arrow Knight)

You mean... eagle runners right?

[EAGLEMUT]

Besteiro ranged attack damage updated to 16 (from 18); multipliers updated to x2 vs Light Cavalry & Arrow Knight, x0.75 vs Cavalry & Coyoteman, x1.25 vs Heavy Infantry (from x1.5 vs Light Cavalry & Arrow Knight)

You mean... eagle runners right?

Right. Fixed.

[Jerimuno]

lancers with +2 range were too good imo
i agree regarding the rods though, why change an already sub par unit?

[deleted_user0]

I find the problem that after xp buff AND caba might be too good against Japan/China/Maybe Brit because hard to get goons.

On the other hand caba doesn't really do much vs something like Germ which just spams shit ton of WW anyway

[KINGofOsmane]

Why do we have to make so many chances from re, keep it simple :/

[EAGLEMUT]

Honestly, this patch has so few balance changes and so many reverts, that I'm not sure whether it will increase or decrease the length of overall balance change notes from RE.

[KINGofOsmane]

Honestly, this patch has so few balance changes and so many reverts, that I'm not sure whether it will increase or decrease the length of overall balance change notes from RE.

Ment in general.

[The_Lastsamurai]

and when is this going live?

[EAGLEMUT]

and when is this going live?

Should be Sunday night.

[zoom]

I guess im just stupid cause I dont understand the point of like half these changes.

I think that reading the comments for the respective changes might help you, to that end.

[zoom]

nooo don't nerf rods

Can do!

The +2 range on Lancers was a great idea. It helped Lancers a lot when dealing with clumps of Musk units, which is great design imo. Especially since you can hit a musk which is in ranged mode (e.g. what you want if you're fighting musk with cav).

Please keep.

I would have, but several good players of the civilization are convinced that it's broken, in the late-game, so it seems a poor risk to take, now that the civilization is being buffed

[zoom]

Seems like Indians have gurkas urumi and mahouts (as well as sepoy) now to deal with heavy infantry. The -10% cost in caballeros shipment will be super insignificant in 1v1 now i feel as compared to +2 range.

The consulate changes are great work, I've always wondered why sending 4 siberian cossacks always felt super underwelming however this should now make India otto cons gardener hussar push a little scarier now compensating for their sepoy nerf.

Just checking "Carabineer hitpoints and attack values updated to base Ruyter stats" did these guys not upgrade just like veteran cuirassier?

I don't see the Mahout actually countering heavy infantry; it will simply do 50% more damage than it used to. Still, I'll poll whether to keep this change, after testing it in accordance with popular opinion.

I intend for Caballeros to be about as significant, early, and far less significant, late – with this change.

[zoom]

Forgot to revert Rusk cost change (+5 cost per unit batch) which is now insignificant and unwarranted, imo.

It's certainly insignificant. Whether it's unwarranted depends on whether you consider base decimal costs acceptable.

[zoom]

Besteiro, Prussian Needle Gunner and Roger's Ranger multipliers updated respectively

Underrated nerf to an eco japan lol

I like the general bug fixes (ofc) and the changes to rockets and lancers. The rest all seems kinda iffy, especially the changes to mahout and puma are highly questionable.

Edit: ah, bramboy saw it too, good man

Both of those changes won a significant majority in the recent poll, which is why – on top of their potential upside to balance – I intend to test them. I intend to poll both of them, and many other things, in the next balance poll, to determine whether they are desirable.

[zoom]

lancers with +2 range were too good imo
i agree regarding the rods though, why change an already sub par unit?

Because the unit isn't sub-par enough to be any less viable than the Musketeer. There really isn't any logical reason to keep it. Still, such are the lengths I will go to.


P.S. Please read the comments in the OP.

[zoom]

Well funny things is that overall spain gonna be a bit weaker than on ep7.

I think that this is unlikely, but I'll be striking the Rodelero revert, regardless.

[zoom]

and when is this going live?

Should be Sunday night.

As explained in the OP, it will not be going live in its current state, though.

[zoom]

Honestly, this patch has so few balance changes and so many reverts, that I'm not sure whether it will increase or decrease the length of overall balance change notes from RE.

Please take your sound logic elsewhere!

[iNcog]

Rods yay

Well if Cabas are out that is that tbh I dont always send the card anyway

[richard]

Forgot to revert Rusk cost change (+5 cost per unit batch) which is now insignificant and unwarranted, imo.

It's certainly insignificant. Whether it's unwarranted depends on whether you consider base decimal costs acceptable.

Of course decimals are acceptable. Rusks have 18.4 damage. Boyarded Coss have 29.9 damage and 258.75 hp. Boyarded Strelets have 9.5 attack. The game is full of decimals.

The UI only doesnt show your ressource count properly. It counts up 2 or 3 sometimes. There lies the problem.

[zoom]

Forgot to revert Rusk cost change (+5 cost per unit batch) which is now insignificant and unwarranted, imo.

It's certainly insignificant. Whether it's unwarranted depends on whether you consider base decimal costs acceptable.

Of course decimals are acceptable. Rusks have 18.4 damage. Boyarded Coss have 29.9 damage and 258.75 hp. Boyarded Strelets have 9.5 attack. The game is full of decimals.

The UI only doesnt show your ressource count properly. It counts up 2 or 3 sometimes. There lies the problem.

I'm aware of that. I'm literally only talking about costs. Those are problematic, to me, since they result in misinformation being given to the player, when the UI tells you that you have more resources than you do.

[chronique]

I would have, but several good players of the civilization are convinced that it's broken, in the late-game, so it seems a poor risk to take, now that the civilization is being buffed

Maybe i will regret it! (i regret it already tbh ^^)

[richard]

Show hidden quotes

Forgot to revert Rusk cost change (+5 cost per unit batch) which is now insignificant and unwarranted, imo.

It's certainly insignificant. Whether it's unwarranted depends on whether you consider base decimal costs acceptable.

Of course decimals are acceptable. Rusks have 18.4 damage. Boyarded Coss have 29.9 damage and 258.75 hp. Boyarded Strelets have 9.5 attack. The game is full of decimals.

The UI only doesnt show your ressource count properly. It counts up 2 or 3 sometimes. There lies the problem.

I'm aware of that. I'm literally only talking about costs. Those are problematic, to me, since they result in misinformation being given to the player, when the UI tells you that you have more resources than you do.

I dont understand that. If, for example, you have 93.5g, and rusks cost 93.75, you cant train rusks. That is normal. As soon as you have 93.75, you can train rusks. The problem is, that the UI doesnt tell you your correct value.

Edit: A consistent fix to that issue maybe should have been not to change rusk cost but instead let the UI "lie" to the player by telling him a rounded rusk cost of 94g instead of 93g for the exact 93.75. In fact the UI lies to the players all the time by telling them wrong values for damage of upgraded units. For example, boyarded strelets do 9.5 damage instead of the 9 which the UI says. That means that they do 5.55% more damage than the UI tells you. That s not an unsignificant value imo. By your logic that would mean you would have to nerf strelets now (9.5 -> 9 attack for boyarded strelets). That would be an unwarranted nerf to the russians again though. Idk.

[EAGLEMUT]

This is an update to an ongoing Beta version of the ESOC Patch. You can find combined changelog of current Beta here.



EP 8.0.0.0 Beta2 [2020-03-27]
changelog since EP 8.0.0.0 Beta1
unless specified otherwise, game changes apply to all of ESOC Patch / ESOC Treaty Patch

ESOC Patch bug fixes
- Consulate Besteiro inaccuracy removed.

ESOC Patch map changes
- Introducing 6 new maps (you can find more information about them here):

• UIx ESOC Bering Strait
• UIx ESOC Dhaka
• UIx ESOC Fraser River
• UIx ESOC Nepal
• UIx ESOC Tuparro
• UIx ESOC Wabakimi

- "Tournament Maps" map-set updated to reflect EPL2 maps.
- UIx ESOC Lumaco: added minimap image for lobby screen.

ESOC Patch balance changes
Comments by @zoom, in italic.

After continued discussion and evaluation of feedback, I've decided to make the following changes to the beta (I am currently expecting to make one more update to it):

General
– Huaminca attack decreased from 15 to 14; build limit reverted to 13 (from 10)
This change should be less intrusive and more consistently impactful to rushes than the originally suggested build-limit nerf.

Germans
– "Long-range Infantry Hitpoints" shipment reverted to +15% Crossbowman & Skirmisher hitpoints (from +60% Crossbowman and +20% Skirmisher hitpoints)
Although a fine change, especially for team-games, helping Germans in the late-game, it's (un)surprisingly controversial and thoroughly non-essential.

Indians
– Sowar hitpoints increased to 240 (from 225); Mansabdar adjusted accordingly
In order to avoid any adverse effects of testing the turning of the Mahout Lancer into a Mahout Lancer, it's important to ensure that the Sowar, which is widely considered a weak(er) unit, is able to fill the role in which the Mahout Lancer will be less effective (against compositions featuring non-heavy infantry, and no heavy infantry). Considering the current state of the unit, in addition to the three significant nerfs to Indians introduced with EP7(.1), this change should not prove problematic.

Portuguese
– Cassador cost tweaked to 75f, 35c (from 70f, 35c)
This tweak halves the size of the buff, to avoid any balance risks related to it.

Russians
– "11 Musketeers" shipment increased to 12 Musketeers
– "9 Halberdiers" shipment increased to 10 Halberdiers
These changes, which are an indirect result of the recent balance poll, improve the viable options of the civilization, both in terms of strategy, and in terms of Fortress-Age unit shipments—without significant adverse effects for team-games.

Sioux
At this rate, I don't fancy our chances at producing a high-quality Sioux revamp in a few days' time, without causing major disruption to balance. It's also important to me to more thoroughly investigate what players want, before making such drastic changes. That's why it makes a lot of sense to implement changes whose effect and popularity we can be confident in, avoiding leaving players unhappy, and sioux miserably underpowered, in the mean time. I intend to poll whether to further revamp the civilization (including the removal of the gather-rate aura) ahead of the next major update, while we continue to develop the alternative(s).

– "12 Bison" shipment changed to "20 INFINITE Bison"; moved to Industrial (from Colonial) Age
Thank you to @gamevideo113 for suggesting this change, which will help late-game options (particularly relevant in team games), and synergizes well with "Great Hunter".

– "4 Villagers" shipment replaced with a new "5 Villagers" shipment
This change, which is highly popular with some players, breaks deck compatibility between patches, forcing everyone to edit their decks, which I am accepting after having forced them to do so, to avoid causing that issue. Such are the lengths to which I will go to make players happy. Thank you to Mitoe for presenting a convincing argument as to why this change, which is very popular with some players, isn't quite senseless.

– "Earth Bounty" shipment reverted to 0.65w & 0.65c per second (from 1.2w & 1.2c per second); reverted to Discovery Age (from Colonial Age)
Although a fine change, other changes in this update render it thoroughly non-essential.

– "Aggressive Expansion Policy" shipment moved to Industrial (from Colonial) Age
This change helps the general viability of the shipment, while limiting it in the early game, where it risks being problematic.

– Town Center cost reduced to 400w (from 500w)
Another thank you to Mitoe for suggesting this buff, which makes particular sense, on account of how Sioux Town Centers do not provide 10 population room. The change should also be more significant for team games.

Spanish
– Per-shipment experience points required partially reverted to 72% (from 70%)
This tweak mitigates the risk introduced by reintroducing the below Rodelero buff.

– Rodelero attack (un)reverted to 11 (from 10)
I don't see – nor have I seen – any logical reason to keep this change, which seems a no-brainer revert, if the shipment bonus is being buffed. Such are the lengths to which I will go to make players happy.

– "Caballeros" shipment changed to +1 Lancer infantry multiplier & +1 Lancer range (from +1 Lancer infantry multiplier & -10% Lancer cost)
After additional testing with the help of @gamevideo113, and based on feedback from more players, I've concluded that tweaking the buff to +1 range is desirable to test, after all; partly because it's quite popular.

Credits

- @vividlyplain for new maps Bering Strait, Dhaka, Fraser River, Nepal, Wabakimi
- @dansil92 for new map Tuparro
- @XaKOps for new minimap images