Garja patch

[knusch]

i rly dislike the 2 wh for azzey - so much for iro's civbonus to get a free trav aging up
reducing actecs fortress shipments from 1000c to 500c might be a bit too much.
idk about reverting sepoy and uhlan back to RE.

British
- Manor house cost increased from 135w to 140w

pure madness!

[Garja]

I don't get the point with iro. I am sure every scientist / rationalist know one of the most important principle before doing something, the well called "Ockham razor". Nerfing the big boys is simple, efficient, its aleready done and it work.

The war chief wasn't actually nerfed. It's aura was. The problem I have with that is that it nerfs all units and I don't think that's desireable. Iro units are strong but they are legitametely so, just like other TWC civs.
I remember playing iro with 10% aura and it wasn't that great. In fact it was reverted. Toma and kanya are somewhat expensive units and they suffer from a -5%. Also double nerf on Musket Rider isn't fair either.

[chronique]

Yea well, when i said "wc nerf" i am talking about aura . I think iro is not weak on current patch with 10%, and i think MR is too strong for their cost, but i can live with that.

[[Armag] diarouga]

I don't get the point with iro. I am sure every scientist / rationalist know one of the most important principle before doing something, the well called "Ockham razor". Nerfing the big boys is simple, efficient, its aleready done and it work.

The war chief wasn't actually nerfed. It's aura was. The problem I have with that is that it nerfs all units and I don't think that's desireable. Iro units are strong but they are legitametely so, just like other TWC civs.
I remember playing iro with 10% aura and it wasn't that great. In fact it was reverted. Toma and kanya are somewhat expensive units and they suffer from a -5%. Also double nerf on Musket Rider isn't fair either.

It's 10% aura atm, and Iro is fine.
If you don't want to nerf the WC aura, no problem, but then you need to nerf the strong units.
I also agree that a double nerf on Musket Riders wouldn't be fair.

[Challenger_Marco]

i can't believe this is happening

[RefluxSemantic]

no japanese isolation consulate buff. Bad patch/10

[princeofcarthage]

i can't believe this is happening

Nothing is happening, calm your onesie.

[Hawk_Girl]

one might think coffee would make those dutch villagers faster and not slower

It should make them faster for 10 min then much slower after that due to caffeine dip

[Hawk_Girl]

I'm actually a fan of building fish boats with non schooner civs. Just 70w seemed a bit unfar to me for the schooner civs and in general schooner card wasn't that good anymore (except in team games maybe) because for example Ports can send eco theory instead and it's probably better. I think a 80-40 situation is better than 70-40. I assume touching training time was unecessary. Also 80-60 for asian civs seems more consistent.

I think this is a nerf to schooners compared with EP8 right now. As a civ that sends schooners I would much prefer 70-50w wood cost and training time reduced (as it is on EP right now) over 80-40w cost and no training time effect. Idk I feel the schooners change current EP has done is a really nice one.

[[Armag] diarouga]

It's a nerf to schooner yes.

[Hawk_Girl]

I like this overall, I think the current situation isn't so good with alot of bad blood between players and current EP team. Noone is doing anything to be mean or out of spite, but the situation has simply gotten sour. So this is cool and to discuss. I got 2 questions about otto:

1. So is Silk Road a team card still like on RE?

2. So abus rof is same as RE?

[Hazza54321]

I like this overall, I think the current situation isn't so good with alot of bad blood between players and current EP team. Noone is doing anything to be mean or out of spite, but the situation has simply gotten sour. So this is cool and to discuss. I got 2 questions about otto:

1. So is Silk Road a team card still like on RE?

2. So abus rof is same as RE?

from what i can tell abus rof is the same as RE yea but 34 attack, silk road was moved to discovery and 20% .

[Jotunir]

i can't believe this is happening

Nothing is happening, calm your onesie.

So we should take this as a suggestion thread for the next patch?

[Darwin_]

I really like how this patch is focused on changing numbers, not adding mechanics (though you still have spanish gold, but I don't think that is really all that bad). I would much rather play this than the current EP, for what it's worth. The xbow, lb, gren, halb, pike, and ca changes are exactly the kinds of changes that the game needs. However, I do think this patch would present a bit of power creep (not any more than EP presents tho), so I'd be interested in seeing some minor nerfs as well. And, ofc, I would want fixed crates in my perfect world, but thats another discussion.

[Aykin Haraka]

i'm pretty sure population cost is also one problem about the train of howdahs and mahouts
why not reduce like mahouts to 5 and howdahs to 4? instead of just -1
it's actually an age IV up for 5 howdahs and I don't count the houses cost

I am talking about howdahs, they are really expensive and they are only good in mass, I mean with that 6 pop cost the unit isn't that great

[[Armag] diarouga]

Ye, it has some balance issues but changing numbers is indeed the right way. It feels like aoe but with better design, it's not random changes.

[Aykin Haraka]

if this become real, it would be good to have a team patch too

[Hazza54321]

if this become real, it would be good to have a team patch too

well if mitoe is leader he would and is considering knock on effects with team aswell so i respect that.

[Garja]

i'm pretty sure population cost is also one problem about the train of howdahs and mahouts
why not reduce like mahouts to 5 and howdahs to 4? instead of just -1
it's actually an age IV up for 5 howdahs and I don't count the houses cost

I am talking about howdahs, they are really expensive and they are only good in mass, I mean with that 6 pop cost the unit isn't that great

Because there is a specific card to reduce pop cost even more, even tho it's age4. Howdah is mostly a niche unit, India has already great anticav units.

[Aykin Haraka]

i'm pretty sure population cost is also one problem about the train of howdahs and mahouts
why not reduce like mahouts to 5 and howdahs to 4? instead of just -1
it's actually an age IV up for 5 howdahs and I don't count the houses cost

I am talking about howdahs, they are really expensive and they are only good in mass, I mean with that 6 pop cost the unit isn't that great

Because there is a specific card to reduce pop cost even more, even tho it's age4. Howdah is mostly a niche unit, India has already great anticav units.

I know, but it cost a card, as you said it's an age 4 card, and it only does -1 pop, if elifants are -1 pop cost with the patch, I guess both combined are pretty good.

[Astaroth]

I really like how this patch is focused on changing numbers, not adding mechanics (though you still have spanish gold, but I don't think that is really all that bad). I would much rather play this than the current EP, for what it's worth. The xbow, lb, gren, halb, pike, and ca changes are exactly the kinds of changes that the game needs. However, I do think this patch would present a bit of power creep (not any more than EP presents tho), so I'd be interested in seeing some minor nerfs as well. And, ofc, I would want fixed crates in my perfect world, but thats another discussion.

This. Just a few tweaks here and there, not trying to conpletely redesign civs.

[Hawk_Girl]

I think the tc radius should be reduced to vanilla range, some maps you cant even fb midmap and its dumb.

[Garja]

So, to summarize, what changes do you guys think should necessarily be different?

[[Armag] diarouga]

So, to summarize, what changes do you guys think should necessarily be different?

1) Add a nerf to Germany
2) Nerf fp (if you don't nerf the WC aura, and that would be consistent with the MR/aenna nerfs)
3) Nerf Taj Mahal (the current EP solution is good)

These 3 are necessary. Now, although it's not "necessary", I'd tweak the following changes :
1) - Yamabushi and Konsha Yamabushi ranged resistance increased to 20% (from 10%).
Because it doesn't make sense to buff an already very good unit (and it's not consistent with the pike change anyway because it's RR)
2) - Howdah ranged resistance decreased to 20% (from 30%). Speed increased to 6.25 (from 6). Mansabdar updated accordingly.
Because it doesn't make sense to nerf an already underused unit. I know you want to be consistent with the RR nerf but then add some HP.

[Lukas_L99]

Howdahs only have 20% RR btw.