EP 8.2 Balance Poll

[Mitoe]

It's that time again, everyone!

Here's the link to the poll: https://forms.gle/3AjDAakXmqofVmd58

I will attempt to hunt down @Goodspeed to assist in creating a helpful spreadsheet to measure the responses.

Edit: Found him

Click here to see results

[Black_Duck]

What is the suggested setting to be considered when voting on Civ strength? Am I thinking about how strong I perceive civs to be when I play on random tournament maps, standard maps or just in general?

[Mitoe]

What is the suggested setting to be considered when voting on Civ strength? Am I thinking about how strong I perceive civs to be when I play on random tournament maps, standard maps or just in general?

In general is good.

[Jerimuno]

results just show what a shitfest last tourney was regarding map pool, otto increased by more than 1 point just by being one of the few playable civs, while not having been changed (or was it, honestly idk)

[Mitoe]

results just show what a shitfest last tourney was regarding map pool, otto increased by more than 1 point just by being one of the few playable civs, while not having been changed (or was it, honestly idk)

Ottomans received no changes in EP8, and while their performance in the EPL was strong because of the map pool, it doesn't necessarily mean that they weren't strong before.

[[Armag] diarouga]

The results are suprising but I guess they make sense after the EPL.

[chronique]

The results are suprising but I guess they make sense after the EPL.

Why surprising?

[[Armag] diarouga]

The results are suprising but I guess they make sense after the EPL.

Why surprising?

I didn't expect the community to put otto #1, and I don't think Iro is #2.
Furthermore, I'm surprised to see British being so high rated while top players don't play it, and I don't understand how France is so low (it's better than Germany for sure on this patch).

[Mitoe]

The results are suprising but I guess they make sense after the EPL.

Why surprising?

I didn't expect the community to put otto #1, and I don't think Iro is #2.
Furthermore, I'm surprised to see British being so high rated while top players don't play it, and I don't understand how France is so low (it's better than Germany for sure on this patch).

Well Germans are still played a lot (more than France, by a lot I think), and they're still reasonably successful.

France has always had a poor winrate below PR35. I think Riki made a thread at one point with the analytics and French had a winrate of like 42% or something. They're not really an easy civilization like many people claim I think.

[chronique]

France has always had a poor winrate below PR35. I think Riki made a thread at one point with the analytics and French had a winrate of like 42% or something. They're not really an easy civilization like many people claim I think.

On EP, under pr 28 winrate since 2015

[[Armag] diarouga]

France has always had a poor winrate below PR35. I think Riki made a thread at one point with the analytics and French had a winrate of like 42% or something. They're not really an easy civilization like many people claim I think.

On EP, under pr 28 winrate since 2015

Could you sort this ?

[chronique]

France has always had a poor winrate below PR35. I think Riki made a thread at one point with the analytics and French had a winrate of like 42% or something. They're not really an easy civilization like many people claim I think.

On EP, under pr 28 winrate since 2015

Could you sort this ?

I can everything you ask for

Under pr 35 this time (like Mitoe ask for)

[chronique]

And over pr 35 now!

[Mitoe]

Where are these stats from, and how far back into the past do they go?

[[Armag] diarouga]

Show hidden quotes

France has always had a poor winrate below PR35. I think Riki made a thread at one point with the analytics and French had a winrate of like 42% or something. They're not really an easy civilization like many people claim I think.

On EP, under pr 28 winrate since 2015

Could you sort this ?

I can everything you ask for

Under pr 35 this time (like Mitoe ask for)

Thanks :)
It's interesting to see that France is one of the worst civs at pr35- level.
I guess that's because you need to be very precise (although it's not complicated once you're used to), send the shipments in the right order, age at the right time, make the right unit composition and micro it.

Ah, and Japan is one of the worst civs at pr35+ lol.

[minimoult21]

Yeah, these stats have a lot of interesting stories, but there is also so many intricacies that I don't know how much it speaks on balance.

[chronique]

Where are these stats from, and how far back into the past do they go?

I have scraped EP ladder, so since 2015. Stat are on my computer


Dont know if all can see that, iam not a big user of google sheet, i dont know how i can share to everyone lol

[Mitoe]

Where are these stats from, and how far back into the past do they go?

I have scraped EP ladder, so since 2015. Stat are on my computer


Dont know if all can see that, iam not a big user of google sheet, i dont know how i can share to everyone lol

Doesn't seem like enough games to be from 2015. EP ladder wasn't around until 2018 I believe, and even then it seems like not very many games

Also yeah, can't see that, but if I copy the URL I can find the spreadsheet

[chronique]

Also yeah, can't see that, but if I copy the URL I can find the spreadsheet

Still, since 2015 , not my fault if there are only 300 game where a pr 35+ otto face of an other pr 35+ guy

[princeofcarthage]

To be fair just going on raw stats provided above (assuming they are accurate), except for Sioux maybe (marginally) all civilizations seem to be in reasonable degree of variance to conclude that game balance has been achieved or pretty near at least.

[Scroogie]

From a quick glance this seems to be worse balance than on ep7 or ep6. 20 range abus is unfair imo.

[Mr_Bramboy]

The damage Zoi has done is most likely irreversible. I think it would be a good start to find out which EP version is the best EP version to date and to revert to that version and start over. There are so many random little changes hidden within the notes whose full potential have not been fully realized yet. We need a restart with a competent team.

[Mr_Bramboy]

Regarding the results, I think these answers are a little bit skewed due to the map pool. Of course, the tp-only map pool is a direct result of the incompetency surrounding the nat xp change. Russia, Dutch, and India are good civs in ladder play in my experience, but they struggle against stagecoach play - which is (unfortunately) exactly what EPL2's map pool entailed. The opposite can be said about Iro, Otto, Aztecs. These civs are worse than their rating here might suggest due to the biased map pool.

[n0el]

From a quick glance this seems to be worse balance than on ep7 or ep6. 20 range abus is unfair imo.

The polling data suggests otherwise.

[EAGLEMUT]

The damage Zoi has done is most likely irreversible.

Are we looking at the same poll results? Those that indicate the balance has improved?
Interesting conclusion.

Of course, the tp-only map pool is a direct result of the incompetency surrounding the nat xp change.

That change happened in reaction to tp-only tournament map pools, not the other way around...