Rattan Shield unit tags

[lemmings121]

At this point i'm not even sure if thats a bug that people dont know about, or if thats a feature. But rattans dont have the coyoteman unit tag, only lightinf tag. That means dragoon type units actually dont have a bonus vs them, only pike/meele musk and similar units actually counter them.

Shouldnt hey have the right unit tag?

[Lukas_L99]

Yeah that's basically the only reason why they're good

[Mitoe]

Like Lukas said, I'm pretty sure they'd be kinda useless in the mid-late game without that.

[dansil92]

They suck vs other cav, and with coyote tag they'd actually be better vs skirms since skirmies have 0.75x vs coyoteman. They're fine how they are right now, tiger claws also lack the coyoteman tag and they're not super problematic

[Imperial Noob]

Being light on tags is their unique identity in the rock-paper-scissors game. If goons hard-countered them, they would share the fate of all other industrial nat shipments.

[Riotcoke]

I don't feel the tag should be included, but maybe the amount of rattans you get from the age 4 shipment should be reduced slightly.

[dansil92]

I don't feel the tag should be included, but maybe the amount of rattans you get from the age 4 shipment should be reduced slightly.

^this

I like rattans just being an all around solid melee unit that takes minimal bonus damage but has lower stats. Its unique

[Snuden]

I would like it to have a more fluid tag.

[dansil92]

Just think of rattans as reverse rifle riders: countered by musk huss, counters skirm/goon (keeping in mind of course that goons can kite of course, but don't get a bonus). Thats what makes them so powerful in midgame and weaker in early game, a very unique attribute

[helln00]

i forgot but why is there a coyoteman tag again? isnt that what the light infantry tag is for?

[dansil92]

i forgot but why is there a coyoteman tag again? isnt that what the light infantry tag is for?

Eagle runners have light inf too, without coyote then goons would hard counter erks. Coyoteman is the equivalent of "heavy cav" for light inf. There's some inconsistencies regarding the tags though

[helln00]

i forgot but why is there a coyoteman tag again? isnt that what the light infantry tag is for?

Eagle runners have light inf too, without coyote then goons would hard counter erks. Coyoteman is the equivalent of "heavy cav" for light inf. There's some inconsistencies regarding the tags though

Correct me if I'm wrong but isnt how the cavalry system works is that there is a overall "Cavalry" tag that all cav has and hussars only has the cav and hand cav tags while goons have the cav and light cav tag. Thats why goons can still be shreded by pikes or halbs if they make contact and also why the goon multipliers are cav and not heavy cav

If the light infantry system sort of mirrors that then shouldnt the light infantry tag be the sort of overall tag, which it kind of is and there be a erk tag instead of a coyote tag

[dansil92]

i forgot but why is there a coyoteman tag again? isnt that what the light infantry tag is for?

Eagle runners have light inf too, without coyote then goons would hard counter erks. Coyoteman is the equivalent of "heavy cav" for light inf. There's some inconsistencies regarding the tags though

Correct me if I'm wrong but isnt how the cavalry system works is that there is a overall "Cavalry" tag that all cav has and hussars only has the cav and hand cav tags while goons have the cav and light cav tag. Thats why goons can still be shreded by pikes or halbs if they make contact and also why the goon multipliers are cav and not heavy cav

If the light infantry system sort of mirrors that then shouldnt the light infantry tag be the sort of overall tag, which it kind of is and there be a erk tag instead of a coyote tag

Skirms do 2x against light cav and eagle runners, but because skirms do 0.75 to all cav they net 1.5x vs goons

But because skirms do 0.75 to coyoteman and not 'abstractLightInfantry' this leads to skirms doing a full 2x against erks.

Eagle runners are very vulnerable in melee with musks, piki, and *especially* rodeleros (which have the same speed making escape impossible, and because eagle runners can be forced into melee mode, which goons cannot)

Coyote runners and disciples both have the coyoteman tag and are countered like any true hand cav

Tiger claws are light infantry and infantry simultaneously, which is stupid, and makes them vulnerable to every unit class except skirms. Lancers and artillery shred them.

And finally, rattan shields are pure raw light infantry. They take multi only from heavy infantry in melee and the only ranged counters are fusiliers (1.5x at range) and revolutionary militia (2x i think at range). Interestingly they take full damage from skirms, but with 20rr they net similar damage to coyote which take 0.75x but with only 10rr.

The simple fix to the inconsistency is to remove "infantry" from tiger claws and replace every instance of ranged infantry doing 0.75x vs "coyoteman" with "abstractLightInfantry"

[helln00]

Show hidden quotes

i forgot but why is there a coyoteman tag again? isnt that what the light infantry tag is for?

The simple fix to the inconsistency is to remove "infantry" from tiger claws and replace every instance of ranged infantry doing 0.75x vs "coyoteman" with "abstractLightInfantry"

Yeah thats sort of what I was thinking, though wouldnt that make rattan shield even more op against skirm since the only reason they take full damage now is because they lack the coyote tag.

If we want it to mirror the cav system then I think goons also have to have multipliers to light infantry instead of coyote. Though that would make rattan lose their special status.

[dansil92]

The cav system doesn't work like that... goons counter the "hand cav" tag not "abstract cav" otherwise goons would obliterate each other

[iNcog]

Oh I didn't know this. no wonder they're so good, they don't have a counter unit tag when the whole of aoe3 revolves around counter units

I guess beefy cav should be able to do okay vs them; as well as beefy musks or HI

[helln00]

The cav system doesn't work like that... goons counter the "hand cav" tag not "abstract cav" otherwise goons would obliterate each other

huh did not know that, I always thought goon counters all cav since the multiplier just says cav.

does pike counter all cavs including goons though?

[dansil92]

Pikes counter all cav, including goons yeah. Rodelero falc is just so disgusting for that reason, the goons cant get close to rods.

Goons only hard counter hand cav, coyote runners and disciples, which is why (for example) in an india mirror if you're staying colonial the tiger claw shipment will wreck a zamb gurkha comp so it is lowkey often better to go sepoy sowar