EP 9.0.x Beta [RELEASED-LIVE]

[n0el]

@WickedCossack 1v = same eco as 12.5 vills gathering with teepee aura. On ep 8, I have 13 vills gathering with teepee aura as soon as 3v comes in. Sure it buffs early aggression in colo but Sioux still is gonna be dependent on the Bb timing and by the time that hits the changes are negative

You're forgetting the snowball effect though. Now with fixed crates, you can go for an age 1 TP every game and still age in time, that's big.

All that does is buff the BB timing though

[Garja]

Another meh patch to be honest. And with the fixed crate bs the game will become worse and worse.

[princeofcarthage]

first time I read EP changes without getting instant brain cancer

Wait till 100 more changes that are supposed to be added

[fei123456]

What about native changes? Redesigned native units and techs are what EP9 really needs.

[deleted_user]

There are native changes.

Slow and steady wins the race.

[Kaiserklein]

Civs being nerfed slightly: #2 and #4
Civs being buffed: 3, 6, 8, 10, 11, 13, plus all euro civs
Civs being nerfed to shit: 12

Balance polls being used: 0

Via viewtopic.php?f=80&t=20538&p=461166&hil ... ce#p461166

Can you just stop being so biased and spamming about sioux lol. Don't pull another somppu with india, it's really annoying.
In case you didn't realize, +1 starting vil is an insanely huge boost. How can you even say sioux is "nerfed to shit"? It probably will even be reverted cause it's OP.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Ye, I'm not 100% sure yet, but I expect the starting vill to be a buff compared to teepees.

[Kaiserklein]

It's not even close lol. Sioux is gonna age a vil earlier every game now, while still having the same amount of vils in transition anyway. So essentially they're gonna be 25 sec faster in all the early game. It's so much more impactful than a teepee (and you don't spend 50w on it either).
Or they'll just get an age 1 TP and still age 15 (or well, 16 now) without idle time, which is also so much better than a teepee.

I really wonder why we're making one of the fastest civs even faster with +1v, makes no sense to me.

[lemmings121]

The sioux change feels a bit weird to me, as it boosts whats already strong (bb allin, early timmings), and nerf whats already weak (solid defensive long term gameplans).

But again, its one change in a huge patch where lots of stuff will change, I dont think anyone actually knows how balance will be in this patch, its all just guesses, so i just hope to be able to playtest soon with fixed crates.

[Mitoe]

There are native changes.

Slow and steady wins the race.

There are, but they’re not in the beta yet.

[chronique]

Sioux lobby are realy strong, where are those members???

[dansil92]

Sioux's design just is such an outlier to standard aoe3 civs, its just awkward to balance it into the current meta and I dont know if there's an actual answer. They have awesome politicians, great colo shipments, decent fortress age shipments. And on paper they even scale really well with tons of upgrade big buttons, shipments, but it like, legit never happens in a real game. I think a fix would be to *drastically* lower the plantation/farm/stable/war hut big button costs since just building a farm or plantation is almost unheard of. They just don't scale well currently and are always all-in for 16 min

[iNcog]

the kaister meme made me laugh sorry I don't understand balance just here in the thread for the lulz

[Garja]

+1v is so shit it shouldn't even be discussed

[kevinitalien]

reduce the price of veterans upgrade for russia, WHY ???? +1 vills for sioux is fucking strong but well lets go !!...

[Imperial Noob]

With veterancy of Russian units being cheaper, would it be too much to ask for Westernization from the church card to be decreased by about 25% too?

[dansil92]

I've been testing out EP9 exclusively now and I've already thrown together a rough aztec build based on their new fortress shipments. Stay tuned. Loving the new balance changes and can't wait to test out the new natives

[dutchdude117]

Buff Halberdiers!

[harcha]

With veterancy of Russian units being cheaper, would it be too much to ask for Westernization from the church card to be decreased by about 25% too?

I disagree with making their veterancy cheaper, but I think reducing westernization down from 900w to about 600w or 700w would be good (you make a sizable investment by sending it already). This would encourage using church card which also makes russia very scary in IV, as the value at that point becomes quite high.

[EAGLEMUT]

This is an update to an ongoing Beta version of the ESOC Patch. You can find combined changelog of current Beta here.



EP 9.0.0.0 Beta2 [2020-07-29]
changelog since EP 9.0.0.0 Beta1
unless specified otherwise, game changes apply to all of ESOC Patch / ESOC Treaty Patch

General
- Merged changes up to EP 8.2.2.0.

ESOC Patch bug fixes
- Removed attack delay on all cannon-based artillery units, fixing an issue that caused them to sometimes fire "blank" shots.
- Fixed an issue where Crossbowmen could still occasionally miss units moving at high speed.
- Fixed a bug preventing walls from being able to transform into gates, when the wall was "obstructed" by nearby units.
- Fixed an issue where certain Iroquois walls could be selected from much further distance than intended. Affected types of walls were pillar & longest straight segment for unupgraded walls, and Gate for upgraded walls.
- Mantlets and Light Cavalry units may now choose to utilize their Siege Attack against Ships, when within appropriate range.
- Fishing Boats may no longer garrison into any defensive buildings other than Docks.
- Hidalgo revolution now grants Saloon-version Outlaw units, rather than Outlaw treasure guardians.
- Petrine Reforms upgrade no longer activates Guard Pikemen.

ESOC Patch balance changes

General
- Trading Post income decreased by 15%.

Native tribes rework

General Changes:

- Native "Warrior Societies" & "Discipline Training" upgrade costs halved
- Accuracy mechanic removed from all native warriors

- Spy & Ninja native warrior multiplier removed

NATIVE TRIBES

ZAPOTEC


The Zapotec Lightning Warrior has pretty pathetic stats. It's supposed to be heavy hand-infantry used to counter Cavalry, but it only has 11 attack with a 2x multiplier (just barely over half what a pikeman does), 4.5 speed, and costs a buttload more than a pike.

Looking at the unit in game, it has very similar design, feel, and stats to the Jaguar Prowler Knight, so we've decided to embrace that and turn him into a native warrior version of the JPK. He won't be able to stealth, but should still offer some interesting options to players!

- Hand attack increased to 12 (from 11)
- Cavalry multiplier increased to 2.5 (from 2)
- Light Infantry multiplier increased to 2 (from 1.5)
- 2.5x Heavy Infantry multiplier added

- Train time increased to 30 seconds (from 20)
- Siege attack reduced to 24 (from 30)

TECHS
- No changes; might consider a small nerf to "Zapotec Cult of the Dead" (+20% Hand-Infantry Attack), because it also affects Coyote-Runner type units.


MAYANS


The Maya Holcan Spearman, like the Zapotec, have pretty pathetic stats. We are increasing their damage and hp slightly.

- Build Limit increased to 17 (from 15)
- Hand attack increased to 10 (from 8)
- Hitpoints increased to 185 (from 180 - no longer dies in 2 hits to TC fire)
- "Siege Trooper" and "Siege Unit" tags removed

- Train time increased to 30 seconds (from 20)
- Siege Attack decreased to 24 (from 45)
- Siege Attack ROF decreased to 3 (from 4)

TECHS
- "Maya Cotton Armor" (+20% Hand Infantry Hitpoints) cost reduced to 250w 250c (from 300w 300c)
Also affects Coyote Runner type units, will be watching this one in the future as a result. May need to be tweaked to 15%.
- "Maya Calendar" (Hunts & Mills 10% faster) now also affects berries


NOOTKA


Nootka are one of the more viable native units at the moment for rushing, but not as useful for combat. We're tweaking their stats a bit to make them less cheesy and more solid of a unit.

- Build Limit increased to 16 (from 15)
- Hand Attack increased to 12 (from 10)

- Train time increased to 30 seconds (from 20)
- Siege Attack reduced to 28 (from 30)

TECHS
- "Loyal Nootka Warchief" now spawns a Nootka Warchief. Enables him to be retrainable at the Nootka Settlement rather than explorer.
It was simply way too expensive to get the Warchief since you needed to get the tech and then train him. It also sucks if you lose your explorer as you cannot retrain him.


CARIB


The Carib Blowgunner is a low-range unit. Pretty cost-inefficient overall. The design of the unit doesn't really work very well, so we decided to adjust its purpose a bit.

- Speed increased to 5 (from 4.5)
- Heavy Infantry & Light Cavalry multiplier removed
- All-Infantry x1.5 multiplier added

- Train speed increased to 30 seconds (from 20)

TECHS
- No changes


SEMINOLE


The Seminole Sharktooth Bowman would not be a bad unit if he had more than 12 range (and the worst setup animation, ever). We're slightly increasing his range and cost, as well as siege range (since this synergizes well with his siege tech).

- Build Limit increased to 16 (from 15)
- Range increased to 16 (from 12)
- Siege range increased to 10 (from 6)
- LOS increased to 18 (from 12)

- Train time increased to 30 (from 20)
- Cost increased to 50f 50w (from 75f 25w)

TECHS
- "Seminole Bowyer" decreased to 15% archer damage (from 20%)
- "Seminole Bowyer" cost decreased to 250w 250c (from 300w 300c)
With the unit and settlement being more useful, it feels a bit risky to keep this already quite useful tech so high.


TUPI


The Tupi has decent stats, but for a unit with such low hitpoints and armour it falls just slightly short of the mark.

- Build Limit increased to 16 (from 15)
- Missing "Archer" tag added
- Range increased to 20 (from 18)
- LOS increased to 22 (from 20)

- Train time increased to 30 seconds (from 20)

TECHS
- "Tupi Animal Lore" now also allows cougars to be trained from Explorer


APACHE


Apache Cavalry are actually just copy-paste the same as dragoons, but missing an artillery multiplier, and still has 30% Ranged Resistance. Only small tweaks necessary here.

- Build Limit increased to 9 (from 8)

- Train Time increased to 40 seconds (from 30)

TECHS
- "Apache Warrior Societies" now adds x0.5 multiplier vs Artillery


CHEYENNE


The Cheyenne Rider is a decent unit, crippled by its high wood cost and low resistance. Tweaking the cost and adding a base multiplier vs cavalry to make them a bit more unique.

- Cost changed to 95f 90w (from 40f 110w); Build bounty adjusted accordingly
- Increased Cavalry multiplier to x1.5 (from 1)
- Increased Light Infantry multiplier to x1.25 (from 1)

- Train time increased to 40 seconds (from 30)

TECHS
- "Cheyenne Fury" now increases cavalry multiplier by x1.5 (down from 2)
- "Cheyenne Fury" now increases Light Infantry multiplier by x1 (down from 2)
- "Cheyenne Hunting Grounds" cost increased to 175w 175c (from 150w 150c)


COMANCHE


Comanche are just really bad for their cost. We'll reduce it.

- Cost reduced to 70f 60w (from 70f 80w); Build bounty adjusted accordingly

- Train time increased to 35 seconds (from 30)

TECHS
- No changes


CREE


Cree Trackers actually don't have bad stats, and the settlement has great utility. With buffs to other native warriors, we expect that Cree Trackers may become more common if builds are developed. No changes needed here.

- No changes


HURON


Huron are untrainable until lategame due to their high wood/coin cost.

- Cost changed to 100f 60w (from 50w 100c); Build bounty adjusted accordingly

TECHS
- "Huron Fish Wedding" decreased to 15% fishing/whaling (from 20%)


NAVAJO


The Navajo Rifleman is sold as a low-range skirmisher that can stealth, but this doesn't seem useful at all. This unit seems more like a Shinobi than anything else, and so a Shinobi he shall become.

- Build Limit increased to 16
- Ranged damage increased to 20 (from 11)
- Cavalry, Heavy Infantry, Light Cavalry, and EagleKnight multipliers removed
- Speed while in stealth mode increased to 3.4 (from 2.5)
- Range increased to 14 (from 12)
- Melee damage increased to 11 (from 6)

- Train time increased to 30 seconds (from 20)
- Cost increased to 60f 50w (from 60f 40w); Build bounty adjusted accordingly
- x0.75 Villager multiplier added (from 1)

TECHS
- "Navajo Craftsmanship" cost increased to 175f 125w (from 150f 100w)
- "Navajo Weaving" cost decreased to 100w 200c (from 100w 250c)


CHEROKEE


The Cherokee Rifleman actually has decent stats, just needs a small push in the right direction to be useful.

- Build Limit increased to 16 (from 13)

- Train time increased to 30 (from 20)

TECHS
- No Changes


KLAMATH


Copy-paste Cherokee clone with a more useful stat-upgrade available in Fortress.

- Build Limit increased to 15 (from 13)

- Train time increased to 30 (from 20)

TECHS
- No changes


INCA



Huaminca
- Melee attack increased to 15 (from 14) [revert]

- Train time increased to 30 seconds (from 20)
- Siege attack decreased to 28 (from 48)
- Siege attack ROF decreased to 3 (from 4)

Bolas Warrior

- Build Limit increased to 10 (from 8)
- Cost decreased to 40f 55w (from 40f 60w)

- Train time increased to 28 seconds (from 20)

TECHS
- No changes


MAPUCHE


For the cost of a Nootka, you get a worse unit. Rather than make him a Nootka clone, we'll change him to be more similar to a Samurai or a Doppelsoldner, since his club looks capable of doing massive area damage, and since it's also usually paired with the Incan settlement, which already has a very similar unit.

- Hitpoints increased to 200 (from 165)
- Melee Resistance increased to 20% (from 10%)
- Melee Attack increased to 18 (from 12)
- 2 Area added (from 0)
- Cavalry multiplier increased to x2.5 (from x2)
- Light Infantry multiplier increased to x1.75 (from x1.5)

- Cost increased to 100f 65w (from 85f 15w); Build bounty adjusted accordingly
- Speed decreased to 4.75 (from 5)
- Siege damage decreased to 26 (from 30)
- Train time increased to 35 (from 20)
- Build Limit decreased to 12 (from 13)

TECHS
- No changes


UDASI


Low range with a huge setup animation makes this unit one of the worst. Increasing its range to compensate.

- Range increased to 14 (from 10)

TECHS
- "Army of the Pure" now only grants Chakram +2 range (from +4)
- "Army of the Pure" cost reduced to 125w 125c (from 300w 300c)
- "Sikh Gurus" cost increased to 130w 130c (from 100w 100c)


JESUIT


Conquistadors are actually almost there. Increasing their damage slightly to put bring them in line.

- Ranged attack increased to 19 (from 17)

- Train time increased to 35 seconds (from 30)

TECHS
- No changes


SHAOLIN


Rattan Shields seem ok, even if their stats are a little bit inefficient for their cost. However, because their train time will be taking a hit, they'll get some small buffs to compensate.

- Build Limit increased to 16 (from 15)
- Melee attack increased to 16 (from 15)

- Train time increased to 30 seconds (from 20)

TECHS
- No changes


ZEN


Sohei are ok, however because their rush & siege damage will be receiving the same treatment as all natives, they could use a small boost.

- Build Limit increased to 16 (from 15)
- Speed increased to 5.25 (from 5)

- Siege attack decreased to 27
- Train time increased to 30 seconds (from 20)

TECHS
- No changes


BHAKTI


Like Rattan Shields, Tiger Claws seem ok. However, for slightly lower speed and less hp, they don't quite get enough compensation.

- Hitpoints increased to 160 (from 150)

TECHS
- No changes


SUFI


War Elephants are tricky to balance because they do not cost population, unlike their nearest cousin, the Mahout. The Sufi Mosque is pretty useful already, so buffs here will be small.

- Build Limit increased to 8 (from 7)
- Infantry multiplier increased to x1.75 (from x1.5); negative heavy-infantry multiplier adjusted accordingly.

AZTEC
- Starting crates fixed to 400f 300w

BRITISH
- Starting crates fixed to 300f 300w

CHINA
- Starting crates fixed to 200f 300w

DUTCH
- Starting crates fixed to 500c 200w

FRANCE
- Starting crates fixed to 400f 200w

GERMANY
- Starting crates fixed to 300f 100w 100c

INDIA
- Starting crates fixed to 400w 200f

IROQUOIS
- Starting crates fixed to 500f 100w

JAPAN
- Starting crates fixed to 500f 300w

OTTOMAN
- Starting crates fixed to 100f 400w

PORTUGUESE
- Starting crates fixed to 300f 200w

RUSSIA
- Starting crates fixed to 600f 200w

SIOUX
- Starting crates fixed to 400f 100w

- "Recruit Buccaneer Fleet" (4 Privateers) shipment moved to Fortress Age (from Industrial); cost increased to 800 coin (from 500)

SPAIN
- Starting crates fixed to 300f 200w

Credits

- @musketeer925 for native tribes rework changes
- @mandosrex for gate transform fix
- Chaos (of the Project Celeste team) for artwork to fix selection bug of Iro walls

[[Armag] diarouga]

Time to come back to aoe I guess.

[harcha]

Cool stuff

[forgrin]

Finally, some good fuckin EP

[Kaiserklein]

Should have probably skipped the beta tbh, since it's been so long we're waiting for this patch, and anyway no one will play on it

[dutchdude117]

This is amazing, I'm really excited to try it out

The only thing this is missing is the Halberdier buffs