just get rid of walls...

[helln00]

Yeah i think 10 wood per segment is a good number for the cost of wall segements, and maybe also up their build time abit, especially the bastion walls.

[deleted_user]

Like as victor I think said 'how do walls stay up without pillars?'.

well tbf palisades resist lateral load by having massive posts (palisade from palus means stake) driven into the ground (wood is even a little stronger in tension than it is in compression) but stone/masonry, which is weak in tension, requires a great thickness to resist significant lateral loads. Churches used to just fall down all the time. The medieval curtain wall (tall, relatively thin masonry walls with intermittent towers/pillars for needed stability) which worked well for archers and required the enemy use very tall ladders to scale, became obsolete come the advent of cannon siege weapons because the stone walls were too tall and too thin to sustain the localized damage. So walls got shorter, thicker, their lengths became less, the profiles trapezoidal, and their layout became zig-zag'd to increase soldier LOS and also this would increase lateral resistance. Engineers built earthen damns on the populated side of the walls to absorb shock damage and provide additional support, and then that became the bastion fort: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastion_fort

Then the bastion fort became obsolete come the advent of mortars.

So you can require your stone walls have pillars but acknowledging that they need them should mean that they die to artillery much faster than they do, and that mortars should decimate any aoe3 wall, for hishtorical accurashcy.

Just let the pillars be deleted, it's ez.

[helln00]

Could be cool, pillarless walls being cheaper but weaker to siege.

[deleted_user]

current walls are already stone like wtf? %50 less hp, %75 less LOS and nerf to bastion build time/age. Just because a few mad losers get mad at it shouldn't legalize a point to remove walls entirely from aoe3, they are already overnerfed so I don't really get the discussion about walls

[Riotcoke]

Well the Los from walls was just broken so you can't complain about that

[harcha]

current walls are already stone like wtf? %50 less hp, %75 less LOS and nerf to bastion build time/age. Just because a few mad losers get mad at it shouldn't legalize a point to remove walls entirely from aoe3, they are already overnerfed so I don't really get the discussion about walls

[deleted_user]

Yesterday I saw that the "how to lame port water" thread was bumped and I read more "conversation" between breeze and a 2nd lt and I actually got sad, like actually I experienced physical and emotional discomfort at the idea of naive, gullible noobs actively wanting to exploit the game's imbalanced mechanics and look up to players like breeze and kynesie to do it.

[CuCkO0]

People generally get mad and frustrated over things they lose to or can't beat. That's your own downfall, not the person that is taking advantage of what the game has to offer.

[Kaiserklein]

Aoe3 isn't made for macro games. The lategame is too imbalanced, and there's too many broken mechanics overall. Plus you shouldn't be able to win without any mapcontrol. Plus it makes for extremely passive and boring games. So yeah walls are annoying

[harcha]

Well there is plenty of fun to be had playing treaty and decent balance in lategame can be achieved as good as it can be in 1v1 sup, but I agree with your other points.

[deleted_user]

Aoe3 isn't made for macro games.

according to who? I can say the same that aoe3 isn't made for micro but macro games. in fact the game should equally include both. The arrogance level over here is real lmao, same shit again and again, just no point at even discussing..

[Riotcoke]

Walls are lame, some civs can't outboom with full map control that's why it's not a macrogame. Honestly plantations being a thing is so much worse for the game than people realise

[Hazza54321]

Well some games have either no access to res lategame (starcraft) , or have to control at least half the map for a decent trade route income (age of titans) both methods, particularly aot have much better lategames than aoe3. Bastion walls arent a problem when mortars are available so could potentially move mortars to age 3 or move bastion to age 4. 1500 hp should be fairly easy to deal with in age 3.

[Blastkiller]

Walls are boring and stupid, I'd only give them to noobs. I hate walls because many players take advantage of it to wall up a map or exaggerate to line up walls precisely because of the low cost. In my opinion, a good player knows how to defend himself even without walls, I would ban walls. Raise the cost of the walls to 10 as they say please

[Riotcoke]

Well some games have either no access to res lategame (starcraft) , or have to control at least half the map for a decent trade route income (age of titans) both methods, particularly aot have much better lategames than aoe3. Bastion walls arent a problem when mortars are available so could potentially move mortars to age 3 or move bastion to age 4. 1500 hp should be fairly easy to deal with in age 3.

The cost for a wall for the utility gain is still insanely low though . Also the point about mortars is kinda moot as if you're giving the other guy enough time for you to go 4 and get 5 mortars to take down the wall he's sort of won as you've invested a fuck tonne already

[chris1089]

Why don't we just increase the cost of walls to 8 or 10 wood or something? See how it impacts things and play from there.

[Astaroth]

I love how many people ask for walls to be nerfed because "they are too useful", when in reality most top players almost never build walls or only just a small one very rarely and when walls get sieged down in seconds by all units.

Now you might say, "they don't build them because they hate this playstyle" - considering how competitive some people are, I doubt this would prevent many from building them. Also, compare this to aoe2 where basically EVERY single top player builds walls, in almost all games, with basically any civ. So if walls are "too useful" in aoe3 because like two players in the top30 use them often and another 10 use them occasionally, what are walls in aoe2, where one palisade can stop a whole rush?

I do realize there are differences between aoe2 and aoe3, that civs in aoe3 scale differently and that lategame can be unbalanced. However, this does not immediately make any use of walls OP nor does it require a nerf for them.

[deleted_user]

Why don't we just increase the cost of walls to 8 or 10 wood or something? See how it impacts things and play from there.

walls are already nerfed quite hard so its impossible to get to ask further nerf, anything additional means remove walls from aoe3 which would be the dumbest move ever

[Kaiserklein]

@Astaroth We aren't saying walls are too strong, just that they make for shit games and their design is garbage.
Also you're so much missing the point, why even compare to aoe 2? Resources are much more finite in that game, meaning you can't totally give up mapcontrol. Also lategame is way more balanced cause civs are more similar, in aoe 3 it's so different

[_H2O]

Walls are way too good even on low HP. You can pay 50 wood to basically say “no mechanics needed until you reach critical mass”.

It also allows people to just never learn proper building placement.

In this game it’s hard to siege any building because of the poke potential let alone 1500HP for 5 wood. If you take literally one crossbow shot while sieging the wall paid off.

In regards to why I don’t typically build walls in tournaments, I actually want people to have to play a more complex game. People walking in between my buildings creates room for me to out play them. If I walled then they could just chill out while I chilled out.

There are times where I have a big lead and the only loss is to raids or late game raids. In those cases I do build walls.

[princeofkabul]

why walls are not more expenssive then?

in aoe 2 they are kinda costly but necessary.

[Victor_swe]

Ive always found walls a bit lame. Its usually impossible to get a full circle swesiege on a Wall.

[somp]

Walls aren't op. They are used probably less than 25% tournament games, my educated guess. They actually do increase skill cap. Even in something like fre mirror, aggressive mini walling could be an advantage but it requires extra apm, which should be rewarded.

"Walls are op but I don't use them cause I don't like them" is such a crappy argument. Surely, especially in tournaments with prizepots would use them if they would create significant advantage.

Vs turtle wall japs you simply adapt, make stagecoach build and go fortress. If there are no tps, you probably picked up a bad MU, ur mistake.

[princeofkabul]

everyone was walling like fuck in NWC when there was big prize pool.

[somp]

But that's a good sign. Walls being excessively used, for example breeze being top 1 most of civs, walling literally all map, would be a sign they're op. NWC was nothing like that.
Walls are part of the game but I don't think there's any evidence they're op rn.