just get rid of walls...

[deleted_user]

the discussion turned out to "remove walls from game" It is just hilarious asking for a nerf to walls while in fact they are massively nerfed now. also building a wall cost you villager seconds, extra apm and stuff, booming in aoe3 is already nerfed with EP, walls are not even that strong anymore, so it's hard to get the point here...

[princeofkabul]

walls are dirty cheap c'mon. lol

I'd rather have walls that are solid by stats, but they should cost more resources. 2k hp walls could be implemented for wooden wall if the cost of them would be increased drastically.
or even 2,5k hp. if the cost if tweaked accordingly.

[uberjz]

Walls aren't op. They are used probably less than 25% tournament games, my educated guess. They actually do increase skill cap. Even in something like fre mirror, aggressive mini walling could be an advantage but it requires extra apm, which should be rewarded.

"Walls are op but I don't use them cause I don't like them" is such a crappy argument. Surely, especially in tournaments with prizepots would use them if they would create significant advantage.

Vs turtle wall japs you simply adapt, make stagecoach build and go fortress. If there are no tps, you probably picked up a bad MU, ur mistake.

It does seem odd that the some of the same people who complain AOE3 doesn't reward mechanical skill enough also complain about walls; I would think they'd be delighted to have somewhere impactful to sink their extra apm into.

[princeofkabul]

you're missing the point. Making a wall requires as much apm as it does to make a any building, you just lay it out with you mouse. The impact of it however is that you won't need nearly as much apm after that, maybe even for the rest of the game.

and all that could be balanced more as I suggested above.

[deleted_user]

walls are dirty cheap c'mon. lol

I'd rather have walls that are solid by stats, but they should cost more resources. 2k hp walls could be implemented for wooden wall if the cost of them would be increased drastically.
or even 2,5k hp. if the cost if tweaked accordingly.

I don't think that would be more beneficial, I mean current walls are kinda paper that just allows you to have good positioning, if we had stronger walls for a higher prize, that would still be hard for some civs to make walls early game (the time where you need them) because you can't afford making walls if they become expensive early game, basicly not possible with most of the civs, that's why I call any additional nerf to walls are just meaning to remove them from aoe3.

[deleted_user]

also watch the game



on hudson's bay, blackstar vs kynesie, eventhough they played on the RE patch which had 3k hp walls, blackstar had pulled it off easily. Believe or not but any additional nerf will be equal to remove walls from aoe3 and that would the the worst change ever, booming style is already overnerfed on EP, like many times. Can't really balance the game centered on knusch's personal satisfactory needs lol

[Snuden]

I kinda like walls too. Whenever the other team wall up on Deccan I ask the highest rated player on my team how to proceed.

If the instructions are: Boom, I quickly go to at least 160 manor pop.

Instead of aging I then que up 25-30 muskets from my single rax, which then are idle before killed by enemy cannons.

[Snuden]

(No homo)

[Snuden]

Ngl, it’s pathetic.

[princeofkabul]

also watch the game



on hudson's bay, blackstar vs kynesie, eventhough they played on the RE patch which had 3k hp walls, blackstar had pulled it off easily. Believe or not but any additional nerf will be equal to remove walls from aoe3 and that would the the worst change ever, booming style is already overnerfed on EP, like many times. Can't really balance the game centered on knusch's personal satisfactory needs lol

It's a game from 2015
The best player around that time vs someone who still improving. Kynesie in 2015 is not the same as currently or past years. I thought this is common knowledge.

We just see the wall thing differently. They are indeed paper walls, that's why they could be improved better but with higher cost. In early game you could still wall, but you'd need to do it smartly and not just spam walls which you like to do ( because it's effective ).

Like I said before, I wouldn't mind wooden walls having more hp if the cost of they would drastically increase and bring out more smart, sophisticated way of walling and not just spamming walls because it's
1.Cheap
2.Easy
3.Not op but perhaps too effective.

in aoe 2 people are walling using normal walls and buildings both to create a wall, this sort of thing could also be possible in aoe 3.

[chris1089]

I think it would be worth trying a partial hp revert on walls and a cost increase.

[Astaroth]

in aoe 2 people are walling using normal walls and buildings both to create a wall, this sort of thing could also be possible in aoe 3.

In aoe2, walls are MUCH better than in aoe3 as is. And people do use buildings to wall, but they also just straight up wall like 5-10% of the map around their base. In contrast, walling is essentially non-existent in aoe3.

I do realise aoe3 has different scaling and having aoe2-style walls might be a problem for that. But then again, walls are not OP in aoe3 as is. In fact, map control is already MORE important in aoe3 than in aoe2 due to trading posts and the importance of hunts and mines (until the very late game of mills and plants, which in 1v1 basically doesnt matter).

In aoe2, you can full wall up and rely on your starting gold mines, farms around your TC and nearby woodlines to essentially not have to struggle for real map control until like minute 20-30. In aoe3, you have to leave your base at like min. 10 at the very latest.

The real reason people are hating on walls here and in aoe3 generally is not design (walls are already much weaker than in the intial game) nor is it the different scaling of civs (if it was such a problem, it would be OP - but that clearly can't be proven from the statistics seeing that walling is barely used overall). It really just boils down to: many (top) aoe3 players like a mechanics-based, micro-intensive playstyle in which lategame or a focus on macro aren't as important. This is simply a subjective preference, which IMO doesn't really conform to aoe3's design (again, walls were designed much stronger than they are now) nor to the age series overall.

[deleted_user]

Yeah.in aoe2 walling is much more rewarded while in aoe3 they are kind of paper really. Walls in aoe3 are not really an issue. In aoe3 we have some group of players that is trying to assimilate everything centered on a boring gaming style where you just semi ff and do the same bo all the time, (not including you here prinz).

[chris1089]

I think it's not as simple as this. It's also more dangerous to try and take down a wall in aoe3, because your opponent can poke and also there is clean up potential with snare.

[princeofkabul]

Yeah, im not trying to get rid of walls, but I'd like to see them tweaked, such I stated before. Walls are not nearly as spammable in aoe 2 as they cost stone, which is a good design. I think it would be healthy for the game, and it'd also include wallers and I don't see how this wouldnt be a welcome change even from wallers standpoint. Another change could be that the building speed would be decreased, and the stats buffed.

Basically how I see it.
Less walls but quality ones is better than paper wall mess that you can vomit all over the map.

[Sargsyan]

dunno if someone already suggested this but limiting the amount of wall segments that could be built could also help. not sure if it's feasible though

[chris1089]

dunno if someone already suggested this but limiting the amount of wall segments that could be built could also help. not sure if it's feasible though

I think a better way to achieve the same goal would be to increase the cost. Then there choice is still there to the player as to the cost v value of each wall segment, rather than just building all their walls until they run out.

[Sargsyan]

dunno if someone already suggested this but limiting the amount of wall segments that could be built could also help. not sure if it's feasible though

I think a better way to achieve the same goal would be to increase the cost. Then there choice is still there to the player as to the cost v value of each wall segment, rather than just building all their walls until they run out.

build limit would terminate late game 3x layer wall spam though

[Timurid]

why not both: make walls more costly marginally and set a build limit.

[Blastkiller]

Just raise the cost and its hp by a little so kynesie fans don't complain, you've got less wall spam and a less boring game

[Garja]

Ways to nerf walls:
- after bastion upgrade walls cost 5w 5c
- building time increased from the start
- increase obstruction radius so that it becomes harder to build everything in base plus have multiple layers next to each other

[deleted_user]

"ways to nerf walls" not like it's already overnerfed haha.

[Blastkiller]

I support the garja theory and I mean seriously, with a coin cost no one will make more walls so we save everyone the rest

[Hazza54321]

I like the idea of bastion walls being 5w 5c

[Astaroth]

Still nobody has really made an argument for walls to be nerfed.

They are not (proven to be) OP.

They are not "too useful" (what does that even mean? Compared to what? Compared to their design, in which they were better than now? Compared to other age games, in which even palisade walls are more useful than in aoe3).

The only argument being made is really: "I don't like walls, so nerf them"