ESOC Patch suggestions, comments and discussion

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Poland pecelot
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Re: ESOC Patch suggestions, comments and discussion

Post by pecelot »

do you have statistics concerning the number of times a card has been sent in the game?
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Re: ESOC Patch suggestions, comments and discussion

Post by zoom »

pecelot wrote:do you have statistics concerning the number of times a card has been sent in the game?
No, but Eaglemut and Garja do.
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Re: ESOC Patch suggestions, comments and discussion

Post by Egoist »

I'll post some more ideas in the hope that this will have an impact of some sort. Scratch my previous suggestions, this is my final post.

- give Sioux a 6th villager (remove the random crate). Instead of giving them all this other stuff, 5 villager card etc and making them OP, why not do this instead? This would also make their age up time more reliable. They don't need any big buffs, just a smaller one.
- change the 4 mameluke shipment to 5 mamelukes again and move it to industrial age. This is the most elegant way of solving this problem. The card is a relic from the time when you could train mamelukes in age 3 in the saloon and it should not exist in this form. I thought about changing it to 6 mamelukes for 1000g comparable to the elmeti but I think the card would then be quite strong so it's worth considering that mamelukes are actually underpriced at 400g and should cost 500.
- make Silk Road a colonial age team card again that gives a 20% boost. Silk Road used to be OP back in the day and I think that being able to send it in age 1 makes it more busted that it has ever been in the past.
- make Indian houses cost the normal 100w to slow them down a bit, force more villagers onto wood.
- change the Spanish 5 lancer card to 4 lancers. Their FF is unnecessarily strong right now.
- change the Russian and Ottoman 5 cavalry archer card to 6 cavalry archers. I would like to see more of these and it might help them against cavalry.
- remove the ability to build boats or ships of any kind from the game altogether. Make water be just decoration or a natural obstacle. This will sound extreme but the way I see it there is nothing skillful or fun about this area of the game and it would help a lot in making the game more balanced.
- move the ability to build walls to the fortress age and move the HP upgrade to industrial age. This would also help balance Brits, Japs etc by giving the opponent a fair chance for a rush.
- fix the Golden Pavillion. You already nerfed it to 10% but apparently it operates based on the current stats and not on the base stats? If that's the case then it would be great if you would change that.
- reduce Daimyo and Shogun movement speed significantly to make hit&run "strategies" (=abuse) less viable. I think it's fair to make them more reliant on other units for protection.

My other suggestions that I still agree with:
- reduce the cost for team 4 urumi slightly to 500f
- make the Abus +2 range update for Guard Abus instead of the Veteran upgrade.
I would justify the higher cost of that upgrade and I think it's in industrial not fortress age when Abus start to fall behind a bit.
- increase to Ottoman faster settler production cost to 100w/200w/400w. Currently it is too cheap.
- change German "3SW + 2 uhlans" card to "3SWs + 1 uhlan"
- make Wallenstein's contract cost 2000g instead of 4000g
- reduce Indian wood trickle to 2.1w/sec instead of 2.35w/sec to weaken their economy slightly
- make "professional handlers" card reduce elephant population by 2 instead of 1.
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Re: ESOC Patch suggestions, comments and discussion

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Egoist wrote:I'll post some more ideas in the hope that this will have an impact of some sort. Scratch my previous suggestions, this is my final post.

- give Sioux a 6th villager (remove the random crate). Instead of giving them all this other stuff, 5 villager card etc and making them OP, why not do this instead? This would also make their age up time more reliable. They don't need any big buffs, just a smaller one.
- change the 4 mameluke shipment to 5 mamelukes again and move it to industrial age. This is the most elegant way of solving this problem. The card is a relic from the time when you could train mamelukes in age 3 in the saloon and it should not exist in this form. I thought about changing it to 6 mamelukes for 1000g comparable to the elmeti but I think the card would then be quite strong so it's worth considering that mamelukes are actually underpriced at 400g and should cost 500.
- make Silk Road a colonial age team card again that gives a 20% boost. Silk Road used to be OP back in the day and I think that being able to send it in age 1 makes it more busted that it has ever been in the past.
- make Indian houses cost the normal 100w to slow them down a bit, force more villagers onto wood.
- change the Spanish 5 lancer card to 4 lancers. Their FF is unnecessarily strong right now.
- change the Russian and Ottoman 5 cavalry archer card to 6 cavalry archers. I would like to see more of these and it might help them against cavalry.
- remove the ability to build boats or ships of any kind from the game altogether. Make water be just decoration or a natural obstacle. This will sound extreme but the way I see it there is nothing skillful or fun about this area of the game and it would help a lot in making the game more balanced.
- move the ability to build walls to the fortress age and move the HP upgrade to industrial age. This would also help balance Brits, Japs etc by giving the opponent a fair chance for a rush.
- fix the Golden Pavillion. You already nerfed it to 10% but apparently it operates based on the current stats and not on the base stats? If that's the case then it would be great if you would change that.
- reduce Daimyo and Shogun movement speed significantly to make hit&run "strategies" (=abuse) less viable. I think it's fair to make them more reliant on other units for protection.

My other suggestions that I still agree with:
- reduce the cost for team 4 urumi slightly to 500f
- make the Abus +2 range update for Guard Abus instead of the Veteran upgrade.
I would justify the higher cost of that upgrade and I think it's in industrial not fortress age when Abus start to fall behind a bit.
- increase to Ottoman faster settler production cost to 100w/200w/400w. Currently it is too cheap.
- change German "3SW + 2 uhlans" card to "3SWs + 1 uhlan"
- make Wallenstein's contract cost 2000g instead of 4000g
- reduce Indian wood trickle to 2.1w/sec instead of 2.35w/sec to weaken their economy slightly
- make "professional handlers" card reduce elephant population by 2 instead of 1.

1) Why not, I'm all for these small changes, but apparently that is not the current EP policy.
2) It's a merc shipment so it makes sense to have it in age3. It would suck in industrial.
3) Silk Road has never been op, and it's bad right now.
4) This house change makes a lot of change, but apparently the EP policy is to change the game instead of reverting buffs.
5) The spain FF is fine, not good or bad, just balanced.
6) You still wouldn't see CAs and it's a random buff.
7) Yea lol, standardize the game, remove water, then remove Otto and then all the units but skirm/goon.
8) Japan is already weak, why would you nerf them? Also brit can just hold without walls. You just want to remove the things you dont like.

I won't bother to explain why your other suggestions aren't a good solution because they're either useless or bad.
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Re: ESOC Patch suggestions, comments and discussion

Post by deleted_user0 »

#bufffort
(building speed), its too risky
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Re: ESOC Patch suggestions, comments and discussion

Post by zoom »

Egoist wrote:I'll post some more ideas in the hope that this will have an impact of some sort. Scratch my previous suggestions, this is my final post.

- give Sioux a 6th villager (remove the random crate). Instead of giving them all this other stuff, 5 villager card etc and making them OP, why not do this instead? This would also make their age up time more reliable. They don't need any big buffs, just a smaller one.
- change the 4 mameluke shipment to 5 mamelukes again and move it to industrial age. This is the most elegant way of solving this problem. The card is a relic from the time when you could train mamelukes in age 3 in the saloon and it should not exist in this form. I thought about changing it to 6 mamelukes for 1000g comparable to the elmeti but I think the card would then be quite strong so it's worth considering that mamelukes are actually underpriced at 400g and should cost 500.
- make Silk Road a colonial age team card again that gives a 20% boost. Silk Road used to be OP back in the day and I think that being able to send it in age 1 makes it more busted that it has ever been in the past.
- make Indian houses cost the normal 100w to slow them down a bit, force more villagers onto wood.
- change the Spanish 5 lancer card to 4 lancers. Their FF is unnecessarily strong right now.
- change the Russian and Ottoman 5 cavalry archer card to 6 cavalry archers. I would like to see more of these and it might help them against cavalry.
- remove the ability to build boats or ships of any kind from the game altogether. Make water be just decoration or a natural obstacle. This will sound extreme but the way I see it there is nothing skillful or fun about this area of the game and it would help a lot in making the game more balanced.
- move the ability to build walls to the fortress age and move the HP upgrade to industrial age. This would also help balance Brits, Japs etc by giving the opponent a fair chance for a rush.
- fix the Golden Pavillion. You already nerfed it to 10% but apparently it operates based on the current stats and not on the base stats? If that's the case then it would be great if you would change that.
- reduce Daimyo and Shogun movement speed significantly to make hit&run "strategies" (=abuse) less viable. I think it's fair to make them more reliant on other units for protection.

My other suggestions that I still agree with:
- reduce the cost for team 4 urumi slightly to 500f
- make the Abus +2 range update for Guard Abus instead of the Veteran upgrade.
I would justify the higher cost of that upgrade and I think it's in industrial not fortress age when Abus start to fall behind a bit.
- increase to Ottoman faster settler production cost to 100w/200w/400w. Currently it is too cheap.
- change German "3SW + 2 uhlans" card to "3SWs + 1 uhlan"
- make Wallenstein's contract cost 2000g instead of 4000g
- reduce Indian wood trickle to 2.1w/sec instead of 2.35w/sec to weaken their economy slightly
- make "professional handlers" card reduce elephant population by 2 instead of 1.
Most of these suggestion don't make much sense, to me. I don't have much to add to my earlier post, though. I like buffing the Cavalry Archer shipments, and more or less nerfing Daimyo & Shogun speed. Potentially, in the future, that is.
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Re: ESOC Patch suggestions, comments and discussion

Post by Scroogie »

What about giving the Arsenal more viability? Like reducing the cost and giving it more, cheaper and more useful upgrades. I've also seen someone suggest Advanced Arsenal could give an Arsenal Wagon and reduce costs even further. I think that would add a fun "boomy" mechanic in age3 where you have to be attentive whether your opponent is investing a lot in Arsenal upgrades and whether you should push now or also tech up, or even go Industrial.
RN Fortress is just massing units and pushing resource locations, this could give more interesting timings for the later stages of the game.
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Re: ESOC Patch suggestions, comments and discussion

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Post by Garja »

Can we get to seriously fix Sioux and Ports before the big tourney starts?
Patch balance is overall pretty good despite some arguable spots, but Sioux and to some extent Ports have this amatorial cut to it that makes the patch non consistent and not 100% competitive.
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Re: ESOC Patch suggestions, comments and discussion

Post by n0el »

Garja wrote:Can we get to seriously fix Sioux and Ports before the big tourney starts?
Patch balance is overall pretty good despite some arguable spots, but Sioux and to some extent Ports have this amatorial cut to it that makes the patch non consistent and not 100% competitive.

What is wrong with Sioux?
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Re: ESOC Patch suggestions, comments and discussion

Post by Hazza54321 »

age up bonus teepees is my educated guess
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Re: ESOC Patch suggestions, comments and discussion

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Post by Garja »

n0el wrote:
Garja wrote:Can we get to seriously fix Sioux and Ports before the big tourney starts?
Patch balance is overall pretty good despite some arguable spots, but Sioux and to some extent Ports have this amatorial cut to it that makes the patch non consistent and not 100% competitive.

What is wrong with Sioux?

Questionable eco boost.
A card has been completely deleted (the one that allows infantry to build teepees and stuff).
War chief has weird RR now.
It's just bad design and balance atm.
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Re: ESOC Patch suggestions, comments and discussion

Post by Mitoe »

I think infantry being allowed to construct Teepees is totally acceptable, and the card still enables them to construct warhuts and corrals.

But yeah, teepees just need to be reverted at some point and some alternative sought out instead--it clearly hasn't worked as intended.
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Re: ESOC Patch suggestions, comments and discussion

Post by EAGLEMUT »

Mitoe wrote:the card still enables them to construct warhuts and corrals.

The card was completely reworked; it activates increased gather aura instead.
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Re: ESOC Patch suggestions, comments and discussion

Post by Garja »

Mitoe wrote:I think infantry being allowed to construct Teepees is totally acceptable, and the card still enables them to construct warhuts and corrals.

But yeah, teepees just need to be reverted at some point and some alternative sought out instead--it clearly hasn't worked as intended.

That is the less arguable mistake, frankly. In the sense that it is plain and simply a mistake. Not only is pretty impactful on balance but also it's completely rookie design. There is a card explicitly dedicated to that mechanic and we are bypassing it for the sake of I don't know what.

Actually the WC is pretty dumb and obvious mistake too.

EAGLEMUT wrote:
Mitoe wrote:the card still enables them to construct warhuts and corrals.

The card was completely reworked; it activates increased gather aura instead.

And ye lol, a card with a completely random different effect and nonsense graphics now.
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Re: ESOC Patch suggestions, comments and discussion

Post by Darwin_ »

Seminole TP upgrade (+25% archer attack) should be nerfed a bit.
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Re: ESOC Patch suggestions, comments and discussion

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Post by Hazza54321 »

nah 37 att yumi in age 3 is legit
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Re: ESOC Patch suggestions, comments and discussion

Post by Mameluke »

Where can I see the civ differences - a list or something - between ESOC Patch and RE Patch? I really need to know this because I switch often between these patches. Thank you in advance!
If you see any mistakes in my grammar/vocabulary or whatever, please correct me. I really appreciate it :!: :flowers:
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Re: ESOC Patch suggestions, comments and discussion

Post by EAGLEMUT »

Mameluke wrote:Where can I see the civ differences - a list or something - between ESOC Patch and RE Patch? I really need to know this because I switch often between these patches. Thank you in advance!

https://wiki.eso-community.net/ESOC_Patch/Version_history#Combined_changes_compared_to_official_RE_patch_.E2.80.94_TAD_1.03
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Re: ESOC Patch suggestions, comments and discussion

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Post by Garja »

May want to prompt a pause when the game is restored from savegame.
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Re: ESOC Patch suggestions, comments and discussion

Post by Kaiserklein »

Yeah definitely
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Re: ESOC Patch suggestions, comments and discussion

Post by gamevideo113 »

Wouldnā€™t expanding the mosque xp trickle to all civs and not just otto help in solving a lot of issues with civs on no TP maps?
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Re: ESOC Patch suggestions, comments and discussion

Post by charlemango »

Just wondering, is it possible to implement a random civ choice for players? I know AIs have "Random Personality" option. Imagine the awesome series we could have with random matchups.
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Re: ESOC Patch suggestions, comments and discussion

Post by Thrar »

I don't see how that would lead to awesome series.

You'd get players forced into civs they're unfamiliar with, executing subpar builds, in matchups and maps where one civ might be strongly favored over another. Seeing one player luck into a civ they're strong with and smash their opponent who ended up with a civ they never play doesn't sound too exciting to me.
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Re: ESOC Patch suggestions, comments and discussion

Post by almalek »

more, or I may add suggestion later.
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Re: ESOC Patch suggestions, comments and discussion

Post by deleted_user »

Thrar wrote:I don't see how that would lead to awesome series.

You'd get players forced into civs they're unfamiliar with, executing subpar builds, in matchups and maps where one civ might be strongly favored over another. Seeing one player luck into a civ they're strong with and smash their opponent who ended up with a civ they never play doesn't sound too exciting to me.

Sounds more fun than a BO11 brit v china static MU.

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