Arsenal & advanced arsenal discussion

[Scroogie]

250w cost makes it awkward in bos :(

[Hazza54321]

please dont give zoi more ideas. its fine currently with the cheaper techs.

[iNcog]

Arsenal is fine. Please no change.

[RefluxSemantic]

The only reason people often don't build an arsenal is that it misses the instant payoff upgrade. Many of the upgrades are somewhat situational early on. If there is even a remotely strong skirm upgrade I think people would get it every game. The ranged cav upgrade is strong, but it's a bit expensive so early on and you don't care as much about upgrading your ranged cav. The hand cav isn't great early on because you don't have enough hand cav early on. CIR is great but super situational.

Then later on the game is usually too scrappy so there is not enough money to get arsenal stuff.

[Blastkiller]

The only reason people often don't build an arsenal is that it misses the instant payoff upgrade. Many of the upgrades are somewhat situational early on. If there is even a remotely strong skirm upgrade I think people would get it every game. The ranged cav upgrade is strong, but it's a bit expensive so early on and you don't care as much about upgrading your ranged cav. The hand cav isn't great early on because you don't have enough hand cav early on. CIR is great but super situational.

Then later on the game is usually too scrappy so there is not enough money to get arsenal stuff.

it seems to me everything balanced in the arsenal.
Counter Infantry Rifling: cost 200w, 200c = 400 total resources.
Ranged Cavalry Caracole: cost 200f, 300w = 500 total resources but you have to count that food is the fastest resource so if you compare it is as if you had 400 total resources like at Counter Infantry Rifling

[Blastkiller]

Flint Lock, perhaps this upgrade is the only one that is not found with the cost, 200w and 250c and 10% of life to the infantry while Cavalry Cuirass gives the same and costs 50 resources less, 100w and 300c

[Plantinator]

Yeah but you usually make more ranged inf than melee cav so its fine imo

[Astaroth]

It's so funny to me that in previous age games, at least in aoe2, the blacksmith upgrades were basically a must have every game, whereas in aoe3 you have a quite situational arsenal in comparison.

I do think that is a bit sad; particularly, the most used unit (skirms) gets no overall upgrades (dmg or HP).

I assume this is because the devs didn't want upgrade cards to be useless in comparison.

Anyway, an unofficial patch is prolly not the place for any far reaching changes in this regard.

[Blastkiller]

It's so funny to me that in previous age games, at least in aoe2, the blacksmith upgrades were basically a must have every game, whereas in aoe3 you have a quite situational arsenal in comparison.

I do think that is a bit sad; particularly, the most used unit (skirms) gets no overall upgrades (dmg or HP).

I assume this is because the devs didn't want upgrade cards to be useless in comparison.

Anyway, an unofficial patch is prolly not the place for any far reaching changes in this regard.

The advanced arsenal has Skirmish upgrades

[Blastkiller]

Yeah but you usually make more ranged inf than melee cav so its fine imo

It fits

[Mitoe]

It's so funny to me that in previous age games, at least in aoe2, the blacksmith upgrades were basically a must have every game, whereas in aoe3 you have a quite situational arsenal in comparison.

I do think that is a bit sad; particularly, the most used unit (skirms) gets no overall upgrades (dmg or HP).

I assume this is because the devs didn't want upgrade cards to be useless in comparison.

Anyway, an unofficial patch is prolly not the place for any far reaching changes in this regard.

Counter Infantry Rifling is one of the best upgrades in the game in the right situation. That’s a skirm upgrade right there.


I really don’t want to see the Arsenal buffed. It’s got its place in the game, and it’s a good thing that people don’t build it every single game.

[Astaroth]

Not trying to be a smartass, but that's why I said overall upgrades (dmg or HP). Even if I suck at aoe3, it would be sad if I didn't know CIR

[Rohbrot]

Not trying to be a smartass, but that's why I said overall upgrades (dmg or HP). Even if I suck at aoe3, it would be sad if I didn't know CIR

yeah, sad that we dont have them without a card sent and we still have to invest more res in it.....

[Hazza54321]

Game is skirm dominant as it is. Besides aa has 3 ups for skirm

[Garja]

Does it grant cheaper techs now?

[Rohbrot]

Does it grant cheaper techs now?

aa techs? No

[zoom]

Does it grant cheaper techs now?

For EP7 I opted strictly for the no-brainer option; reducing the cost of the unviable improvements:

– "Cavalry Cuirass" improvement cost reduced to 300c (from 100w, 300c)
– "Incendiary Grenades" improvement cost reduced to 250w, 250c (from 400w, 300c)
– "Infantry Breastplate" improvement cost reduced to 100w, 100c (from 200w, 200c)
– "Socket Bayonet" improvement cost reduced to 200w, 200c (from 400w, 400c)

I decided not to buff the Arsenal outside of this, as it would have buffed improvements that seem undesirable to buff, and buffing Advanced Arsenal isn't clearly desirable (not least for inter-civilization balance purposes). I should poll whether additional Arsenal buffs are desirable, for a future balance update.

[Plantinator]

Did anyone ever wonder why u can research cir right away but have to ship a card to get hp and attack? Clearly seems like cir is the more specialising/advanced upgrade

[harcha]

Did anyone ever wonder why u can research cir right away but have to ship a card to get hp and attack? Clearly seems like cir is the more specialising/advanced upgrade

it is because ensamble studios conspired against somppu to fk over his india

[zoom]

No group of individuals is subject to worse persecution than the great Somali people.

[Jotunir]

Did anyone ever wonder why u can research cir right away but have to ship a card to get hp and attack? Clearly seems like cir is the more specialising/advanced upgrade

And also the better one, 15% extra damage is not as good as counter infantry rifling. I always thought that AA is a waste of resources to be honest, a shipment that allows you to spend resources on upgrades (some of them are next to useless) that you can't spare. For treaty maybe, but for supremacy it's not worth it.

[aligator92]

I recently considered making a dedicated anti Sweden deck, so I can get the infantery speed upgrade in the late game

[Jotunir]

I recently considered making a dedicated anti Sweden deck, so I can get the infantery speed upgrade in the late game

That is one of the better upgrades. Still, you must consider that you would be better off sending an upgrade card instead. For which civ are you making this deck?

[aligator92]

I recently considered making a dedicated anti Sweden deck, so I can get the infantery speed upgrade in the late game

That is one of the better upgrades. Still, you must consider that you would be better off sending an upgrade card instead. For which civ are you making this deck?

Came to my mind when I was playing germany. I have the colonial cav upgrades in my standard deck but you don't really use those against Sweden. 3 Dopps is also questionable vs Sweden

[Jotunir]

I recently considered making a dedicated anti Sweden deck, so I can get the infantery speed upgrade in the late game

That is one of the better upgrades. Still, you must consider that you would be better off sending an upgrade card instead. For which civ are you making this deck?

Came to my mind when I was playing germany. I have the colonial cav upgrades in my standard deck but you don't really use those against Sweden. 3 Dopps is also questionable vs Sweden

Military drummers is nice and isn't so expensive (150 150 ). But you must also include the cost opportunity of a shipment and an arsenal (700 resources for an age 2 shipment + 250 ). it's very costly, just for 10% faster infantry.