EP9: JAPAN

[Mitoe]

Japan seems to be mostly in a good spot right now. Possibly going to benefit a lot from fixed crates & TP nerfs, so going to throw out a small nerf for now.

- Naginata Rider Hitpoints decreased to 25% (from 30%)

[RefluxSemantic]

Why this nerf over any other nerf?

[Mitoe]

Simplicity and least controversial

[chris1089]

Is controversy necessarily bad? Is it possible to make yumi die to cav?

[RefluxSemantic]

Simplicity and least controversial

Is there some other vision behind it? Does this specifically target something you think is problematic? Or do you want to simply nerf something over balance concerns?

[[Armag] diarouga]

Is controversy necessarily bad? Is it possible to make yumi die to cav?

It's complicated, because yumis are insane in late game, but you don't really want to nerf them in early game. Nerfing the age range+HP shipment was tried at one point, but it made that shipment useless, and you could abuse skirms vs yumis which isn't ideal.

[Mitoe]

Simplicity and least controversial

Is there some other vision behind it? Does this specifically target something you think is problematic? Or do you want to simply nerf something over balance concerns?

495 HP with 30% RR for 200 resources is really strong.

I'm not really sure what more I can say than what I also said in the OP. Japan was rated pretty highly in the balance poll and by top players prior to the EPL, and with fixed crates and TP nerfs Japan is arguably going to be getting stronger. Nerfing other aspects of the civ just doesn't feel right; the only other candidate I could see for a nerf would be Yumi Attack.

[Darwin_]

What about fixing golden pavilion so it affects base stats instead of upgraded stats? I feel like that would be a better 1v1 and teamgame change than a nagi hp card change.

[dansil92]

I personally would like to see the samurai changed from a worse dopp to a stronger pikeman

Eg. 11 hand attack, 5x vs cav
(Could have area of 1 or 2)

This would make much more capable of actually doing what it is supposed to without continuing to buff its hand attack and make it broken at lower level play

[Garja]

stronger pikeman = yamabushi

[dansil92]

stronger pikeman = yamabushi

I am of course aware of yamabushi, they're one of japan's best units. The reason i bring this up is that Samurai are currently so useless for any decent player and pretty much unbeatable for newer players. As there is a good chance DE will be at least drawing on ep balance, I think reconfiguring the unit to be less overpowered base damage and a better multiplier against cav would be a step in the right direction to making it a more... viable, balanced unit at all levels of play.
I have other ideas for the unit but it would most likely be heresy to even suggest them

[Zutazuta]

Revert back to 1.01a?

[iCourt]

Revert back to 1.01a?

You would like that wouldn't you ya jap lamer

[Peachrocks]

I like the part where he built Ashis

[princeofcarthage]

Is controversy necessarily bad? Is it possible to make yumi die to cav?

It's complicated, because yumis are insane in late game, but you don't really want to nerf them in early game. Nerfing the age range+HP shipment was tried at one point, but it made that shipment useless, and you could abuse skirms vs yumis which isn't ideal.

Lowering the attack and increasing multiplier to infantry should fix it.

[Zutazuta]

Revert back to 1.01a?

You would like that wouldn't you ya jap lamer

Game was super balanced. Every MU felt winnable. Granted, we only played Jap mirror, but still, every MU felt winnable!

[fei123456]

This is fine, but it's better to buff the +0.5x anti-skirm multiplier shipment to +1x. That shipment doesn't even work in treaty.

Also, samurais with katana don't counter cavalry at all; in contrast, cavalier beats samurai easily. Samurai should counter infantry instead. It happens on rodelero too: how can a soldier with such a short sword kill a knight?

[helln00]

stronger pikeman = yamabushi

I am of course aware of yamabushi, they're one of japan's best units. The reason i bring this up is that Samurai are currently so useless for any decent player and pretty much unbeatable for newer players. As there is a good chance DE will be at least drawing on ep balance, I think reconfiguring the unit to be less overpowered base damage and a better multiplier against cav would be a step in the right direction to making it a more... viable, balanced unit at all levels of play.
I have other ideas for the unit but it would most likely be heresy to even suggest them

Instead of a pikeman, I think make it more like a rod, a melee specialist for clearing out infantry and tanking hand cav.

[Imperial Noob]

Good idea with the cav nerf, nagis are really obnoxious.

Samurai could be more like rods, yesh. Give them more speed, slightly lower the cost, and maybe compensate with lowering damage. Right now there is no place for them in Japanese compositions or strategies.

[cosuco]

ninjya population should be 2
yojinbo buff

[duckzilla]

This is fine, but it's better to buff the +0.5x anti-skirm multiplier shipment to +1x. That shipment doesn't even work in treaty.

Also, samurais with katana don't counter cavalry at all; in contrast, cavalier beats samurai easily. Samurai should counter infantry instead. It happens on rodelero too: how can a soldier with such a short sword kill a knight?

Same is true for doppelsoldners as well. Historically, these boys were anti-infantry, especially anti-pikemen.

However, I don't see how aoe3 would be able to integrate a fast melee anti-inf infantry unit. AoE2 does this nicely with huskarls, but is is more flexible in general (no strict paper/scissor/stone counter system, two armor types for everyone, no static percentage increases of dmg/hp).

[helln00]

Thats kind of the role that rods play actually since they have that ridiculous 40 melee resist and if they have aoe damage as well im pretty sure most infantry would be cleared.

[duckzilla]

Thats kind of the role that rods play actually since they have that ridiculous 40 melee resist and if they have aoe damage as well im pretty sure most infantry would be cleared.

Today's rods do not play that role anymore.
When the game came out, rods were completely overpowered and had a base attack of ~20. They were countering every other age II unit. Successive nerfs led to the unit we see today, with their base damage halfed.

The melee resistance is still crap. Its goods against cav, but shitty against everything else. Without the melee resistance, cuirs would slice through rods even more than they already do.

[Black_Duck]

Rods are pretty tight against cuirs on EP at the moment

[Zutazuta]

ninjya population should be 2
yojinbo buff

This guy gets it!