EP9: CHINA

[Mitoe]

A lot of people have been saying China is quite strong right now. However, with the nerfs to TPs we want to keep changes relatively small until we can get things tested. China will be receiving some small nerfs--they will receive 100f less in their starting crates compared to other civilizations, and their villages are no longer cheaper. We've also targetted their FI to make it a bit harder to squeeze in those high-impact guard upgrades when it matters.

- Starting crates fixed to 200f 300w
- Village cost REVERTED to 200w (from 190w)
- All "Honoured" upgrades cost increased to 350w 350c (from 300w 300c)

We'll be watching China closely to see if they need any more tweaks in the future.

[Challenger_Marco]

Yesh!

[iNcog]

I like the changes, but they feel bigger than relatively small. Maybe I'm reading too much into it. Not for the village cost though.

[Challenger_Marco]

Thought about Porcelain Tower upgrade or 150w (15pop) village? i don't think China is quite strong right now.

[giveuanxiety]

nerf village los. It's insane how much los a village has. There good clip when I was casting where I show it and talk about it, maybe ill look for to post.

[fei123456]

it's just RE china then. But I don't prefer a civ that always age up at 5:00, considering that India can always age up 11/10 now.

[Kawapasaka]

Sounds good but don't see the point in the random industrial nerf. Don't expect the civ to overperform with a fixed -100f relative start anymore (and TP nerfs helping balance MUs like India, Jap, Dutch). Revert that worthless palace nerf from last patch while you're at it too.

[Scroogie]

Will India and Japan Indus upgrades also be changed? Dont know why they are cheaper in the first place.

[Hazza54321]

Theyre not cheaper?

[Cometk]

Will India and Japan Indus upgrades also be changed? Dont know why they are cheaper in the first place.

What about India and Japan? Their upgrades cost 600w 600c like normal

[dansil92]

I think the question is why China has cheaper upgrades anyways

[Hachrt]

Rather than looking at units as individual units, I'm sure the thought process was "You can only train banner armies. So it should cost 600 coin and 600 wood for one banner army to be upgraded. Banner Armies are comprised of two units -- so we'll split the cost 50/50."

[iNcog]

Rather than looking at units as individual units, I'm sure the thought process was "You can only train banner armies. So it should cost 600 coin and 600 wood for one banner army to be upgraded. Banner Armies are comprised of two units -- so we'll split the cost 50/50."

Not a bad idea but it'd be a big nerf. Often you want to upgrade a specific unit, not the whole banner army. Similarly, some units are found in several different banner armies.

No bueno on this change, imo. Though I don't dislike from design standpoint.

[edeholland]

Rather than looking at units as individual units, I'm sure the thought process was "You can only train banner armies. So it should cost 600 coin and 600 wood for one banner army to be upgraded. Banner Armies are comprised of two units -- so we'll split the cost 50/50."

Not a bad idea but it'd be a big nerf. Often you want to upgrade a specific unit, not the whole banner army. Similarly, some units are found in several different banner armies.

No bueno on this change, imo. Though I don't dislike from design standpoint.

I think you are misunderstanding. He is simply explaining what the thought process could be for the current upgrade costs, I don't think he is proposing a change.

[Scroogie]

Thanks. I just assumed their ups were also cheaper xD

[iNcog]

Rather than looking at units as individual units, I'm sure the thought process was "You can only train banner armies. So it should cost 600 coin and 600 wood for one banner army to be upgraded. Banner Armies are comprised of two units -- so we'll split the cost 50/50."

Not a bad idea but it'd be a big nerf. Often you want to upgrade a specific unit, not the whole banner army. Similarly, some units are found in several different banner armies.

No bueno on this change, imo. Though I don't dislike from design standpoint.

I think you are misunderstanding. He is simply explaining what the thought process could be for the current upgrade costs, I don't think he is proposing a change.

Oh, ugh. I woke up 10 minutes ago, misread the post.
They call me Don Quixote

[Hachrt]

Yeah, I probably wasn't as clear as I should have been, I was mentioning this in response to "why china has cheaper upgrades in the first place".

My point was, when china was created, the design was probably thought of as "per banner army they don't" even though "per unit" they do.
The team probably thought that that the cost of upgrading one banner army was equivalent to upgrading one unit from other civs - even if you had to split the cost between the two units.

[Astaroth]

I feel China doesnt really need these additional nerfs when you compare them to Germany:

Both civs get nerfed via the TP nerf, which affects both of them. Yet Germany gets a buff to compensate that, whereas China gets a nerf on top of the overall nerf.

Is China right now really stronger than Germany, considering tourney performance?

[Hazza54321]

Well considering germans are not amazing and china are i would say china warrants a nerf, most likely to meteor hammers

[Astaroth]

In recent tournaments Ger seems to be more successful than China, or at least comparable

[Lukas_L99]

I think the question is why China has cheaper upgrades anyways

Cause they’re forced to train 2 unit at a time while other civs can spam one age 4 unit.

[Guigs]

Is China right now really stronger than Germany, considering tourney performance?

Yeah China is

[harcha]

Is China right now really stronger than Germany, considering tourney performance?

Yeah China is

i see you always complain about china, but have you ever played them in 1v1?

[Guigs]

Is China right now really stronger than Germany, considering tourney performance?

Yeah China is

i see you always complain about china, but have you ever played them in 1v1?

[Kawapasaka]

ego post