EP9: SIOUX (actual thread)

[Mitoe]

Personally myself and many others dislike the Teepee Economic Aura. I'd like to know what the community thinks of it.


This list ended up looking far longer than I had originally intended, but bear with me. It's not as large as it looks.
Please keep in mind none of these changes are set in stone, and feel free to push back on any of them or offer alternatives.



- Crates fixed to 400f 100w
- 1 Villager added to starting units (compensation for teepee economic aura being removed)

Teepees
- Teepee economic aura removed (revert)
- Hitpoints/Attack auras reverted to 10% (from 8%)
- Aura range increased to 20 (from 18)
- Cost reduced to 40w (from 50w)
- Build Limit increased to 12 (from 10)
- "Nomadic Expansion" shipment now increases Teepee build limit by 8 (down from 10); decreases Teepee cost by 25% (down from 30%); moved to Discovery Age (from Colonial)
- "Aggressive Policy" shipment reverted to now enable your warhut units to construct War Huts & Corrals

Water Play
Sioux has always struggled against water, so we're aiming to give them some more tools to combat those playstyles.

- "Recruit Buccaneer Fleet" (4 Privateers) shipment moved to Fortress Age (from Industrial); cost increased to 800 coin (from 500)
- "4 Advanced War Canoes" (4 War Canoes + 20% War Canoe Hitpoints) shipment added to the Industrial Age

Late-game
Sioux has also historically struggled in the late-game, where their economy starts to fall off and their mobility becomes less of an advantage. 20 Infinite Bison definitely helps, but with the loss of the economic aura they will need something more substantial.

- Can now construct wooden walls in the Imperial Age. Bastion upgrade is not available.
- "Earth Bounty" shipment changed from a small trickle of wood/coin to +20% Plantation Gather Rate

[chronique]

Question is : teepee are still usfull with this revert?

[flontier]

Im not sure about the +1vill.
I mean, sioux rush is already quite scary atm with all the cetan/club/wc buffs. they can actually nuke indian aggra or even civ that fb like iro. And they get the best of that rush from the wood start, so im a bit worry that the +1vill mixed with the no-need to spend 50wood on tepees at start, make their rush faster and then way stronger than atm and they'll just be a very aggro civ at the end.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Yes, 40w for 10% attack/HP is great for sure.
10% for all units is an age 3 shipment (worth 1000w), so in theory, you could randomly spam teepees all over the map, and it would be worth even if you fought under only 1 teepee.

[occamslightsaber]

I like the other thread better tbh ngl.

[edeholland]

"Aggressive Policy" shipment reverted to now enable your warhut units to construct War Huts & Corrals

Normally this shipment enables you to build teepees with your warhuts units as well. Is that still the case, or can you build teepees with your warhut units from the start?

[Mitoe]

"Aggressive Policy" shipment reverted to now enable your warhut units to construct War Huts & Corrals

Normally this shipment enables you to build teepees with your warhuts units as well. Is that still the case, or can you build teepees with your warhut units from the start?

You would be able to build teepees with your warhut units by default; that hasn't changed.

[harcha]

I like the idea of removing eco aura/returning sioux back to a more simplistic RE design, so props to that.

what i don't like tho is that sioux would have more vils than azzy and iro, all of which should be low eco civs by design.

as sioux is so focused on hunting/bisons etc can we perhaps elevate them in this regard instead of the 6th vil? maybe farm rickshaw for ez hunting upgrades? enable these upgrades in the market? 5 bison with every ageup? idk man

[Imperial Noob]

How are wooden walls in age 5 going to help supremacy playing? Nobody reaches that age, and even fortress units burn through these like through butter...

[harcha]

How are wooden walls in age 5 going to help supremacy playing? Nobody reaches that age, and even fortress units burn through these like through butter...

having access to walls is better than the opposite. anyway it's kind of a useless change and doesn't really do anything in any actual 1v1 so who cares

[Mitoe]

I like the idea of removing eco aura/returning sioux back to a more simplistic RE design, so props to that.

what i don't like tho is that sioux would have more vils than azzy and iro, all of which should be low eco civs by design.

as sioux is so focused on hunting/bisons etc can we perhaps elevate them in this regard instead of the 6th vil? maybe farm rickshaw for ez hunting upgrades? enable these upgrades in the market? 5 bison with every ageup? idk man

Iroquois starts with a free travois, and Aztec start with a free Warrior Priest, while Sioux get nothing. Although now that I'm thinking about it I guess Sioux's extra "economic unit" is supposed to be the free population. Though they also start with less crates than Aztec and Iroquois, so really they just have less stuff than the other TWC civs at the start.

[aaryngend]

Personally myself and many others dislike the Teepee Economic Aura. I'd like to know what the community thinks of it.

Obviously. Teepees are an offensive building, not an economic boost. I don't know how that change could go through anyway. Guess it's one of those "let's buff the weakness of a civ no matter what" mantra.

- Can now construct wooden walls in the Imperial Age. Bastion upgrade is not available.
- "Earth Bounty" shipment changed from a small trickle of wood/coin to +20% Plantation Gather Rate

Whoops, here we go again

[chronique]

Iroquois starts with a free travois, and Aztec start with a free Warrior Priest, while Sioux get nothing. Although now that I'm thinking about it I guess Sioux's extra "economic unit" is supposed to be the free population. Though they also start with less crates than Aztec and Iroquois, so really they just have less stuff than the other TWC civs at the start.

Sioux start with 20 invisible house, its not nothing

[spanky4ever]

tbo, I do not care anymore

[Hazza54321]

I like the idea of removing eco aura/returning sioux back to a more simplistic RE design, so props to that.

what i don't like tho is that sioux would have more vils than azzy and iro, all of which should be low eco civs by design.

as sioux is so focused on hunting/bisons etc can we perhaps elevate them in this regard instead of the 6th vil? maybe farm rickshaw for ez hunting upgrades? enable these upgrades in the market? 5 bison with every ageup? idk man

Iroquois starts with a free travois, and Aztec start with a free Warrior Priest, while Sioux get nothing. Although now that I'm thinking about it I guess Sioux's extra "economic unit" is supposed to be the free population. Though they also start with less crates than Aztec and Iroquois, so really they just have less stuff than the other TWC civs at the start.

I like the idea of starting with a farm rickshaw or something along those lines instead, it would boost them on non tp however can see it being a problem on livestock maps

[spanky4ever]

ep so far from RE, so I do not care anymore, And who can keep up with the rapid changes anyway I am lost

[Le Hussard sur le toit]

I would like Sioux's changes to make them better at raiding and harassing opponent eco rather than buff their own economy.

For example by giving (some of) their units bonus against villagers. Suppose you needed 5 bow riders to one shot a vill instead of 10... Players who are strong at multitasking could easily be raiding with 2-3 groups from different sides and completely disrupt the opponent's eco.

In the same vein it would be cool if they could deny hunts by planting tepees on them shrine-style.

[chronique]

Farm rickshaw not fit realy well with sioux design i think. They are suppose to be nomade.

[Imperial Noob]

What if Sioux started with an (age 1 only) shipment ready? A sort of strategical "pick your bonus" feature.

[fei123456]

Teepee econimic aura is a good imo: at least it looks impressive. Reduce it to 5% to 6% to balance it.

[Astaroth]

Honestly, while the eco teepees deviate a lot from RE and it seemy weird to boost Sioux eco, I do like that they add an eco option that requires some additiona macro decision making, as in when and where to build how many teepees etc. Otherwise Sioux can basically just go full food/gold eco and never care about anything else, aside from some upgrades which can be paid via crate shipments.

If eco teepees are considered too out there and incompatible with Sioux civ design, then I believe just giving them another vill is a weird alternative because it also boosts their eco while removing the additional macro aspects.

Maybe boosting their units vs vills would actually be a good alternative: it focuses on their civ identity, their cav and their raiding. It also makes sense because EP has more secure and plentiful hunts than RE, making raiding harder. A bonus vs vills would even that out.

[Makrokosmos12]

Lmao,
what is this change with:

-Can now construct walls in IMPERIAL AGE. And no bastion. Wut?

Since how often you wanna go to imperial with fucking sioux???
Ye... all my games go to imperial when i play sioux. And then when im there, i wanna make big wooden walls with 1500 HP.
Because thats gonna stop my opponent from breaking in my base with his industrial and imperial uprgraded units.

Tbh, there probably wasnt even a game played since the creation of this website where sioux age up to imperial on a decent competetive level.
This is probably the most pointless change in EP history.

The rest of the changes are fine i think, sioux is still hard to push in their base which is rly anoying.
@Mitoe cmon Mitoe, this must be a joke, i know you are better than this xD

You should remove or change this to be doable in fortress or industrial.

[harcha]

I think that change is strictly to level the playing field in lategame teamgames, don't think there is any intention to add walls in fortress

[n0el]

I really think the teepee aura was one of the best EP changes and would be very sad to see it gone. Might be a compromise to have one of the teepee cards be in age 3 and unlock the aura? Requires an investment in the mid game to set up eco, like other civs would.

[RefluxSemantic]

This might 'fix' Sioux but it feels like a poor way to fix them. Design-wise I feel like they shouldn't ever be a standard semi-FF civ and I feel like +1 starting vill moves them in that direction. But at least it's less random than karni mata Teepees.