EP9: PORTUGUESE

[Mitoe]

So the most recent balance poll rated Portuguese in last place.

Myself and the rest of the balance team don't feel like this is accurate, and feel like this is mostly a reflection of the fact that hardly anyone plays the civ.

So, rather than start by discussing balance, I want to ask you: what don't you like about playing Portuguese, and what would it take to make the civilization more fun?

[Charlesh]

80 food vils

[Qosashvili93]

Idk i was never portuguese player but sometimes i wanted to play with them but now never because I know my skirms just dont shoot

[wardyb1]

I just feel as though you never really have a reason to play ports unless you are able to go water. You just never think to yourself "damn Ports would kill it here". Like even for ATP style Otto and Spain just seem like the better bet it seems. Now I know Port goons on RE are "lame", but you felt rewarded for making it through the slog and finally got to abuse something. I just think Ports have lost one of the few unique things they had to their identity. Now if you are looking for civs to scale well into the 4th age then there are better options. That was why cheap vills at least felt like some compensation because at least the boom was faster, although you had less bullshit units to abuse afterwards(I don't think cheap vills though is the answer). I think the ROF change to cass makes them awkward too to less skilled players, which doesn't make it any friendlier to buy into the civ.

Now as for actual changes I'm probably throwing shit at a wall and seeing what sticks. Personally I think you could've left them with .30 range resist goons to keep keep their uniqueness in regard to goons. I'd get rid of the ROF change on cass and might given them a small HP boost or upping their range resist to .60 so they are still vulnerable to the cannon problem but allows better trading with skirms.

Also I think recent map pools in tourney's hasn't really favoured them which leads to them seeming weaker than they are.

Anyway my main response is just they don't feel "right" despite albeit minimal changes.

[chronique]

Reverting the cassa rof is sad but its what happend back in the age with the sames kind of arg. I hope we don't need that.

[flontier]

I play them quite often and in tournament as well cause i find them quite good (it might even be my best winrate lol). So im suprised by the result. I find them fun because they required a lot of multitasking and macro, but their turtle civ reputation is prob what makes people not play them more.

Tho i think with the fixed wood start for almost every civ and the tp nerf, their atp build is very nerf and i think they may deserve some slight buff cause atp was maybe their only good answer to civ like brits, and overall they dont get much from a wood start compared to other civ like fre.

[knusch]

So the most recent balance poll rated Portuguese in last place.

Myself and the rest of the balance team don't feel like this is accurate, and feel like this is mostly a reflection of the fact that hardly anyone plays the civ.

that's kinda funny tho xD

anyway feels that the rof nerf was too much

[sebnan12]

well i feel in every aspect ports are just inferior to another civ. atp i prefer spain, water i prefer brits and on normal maps i prefer any other semi ff civ. i like playing ports on no tp map though but there aswell are some better civs available to play like russ or india. i can see why ports are last alltough i dont quite agree

[Le Hussard sur le toit]

When I play port (my favourite civ), I want to be able to sit back in base, defend as I can, boom like crazy and win in the late game.
In the early and mid game you should be suffering but thinking " it's getting better all the time", and in the late game you should be confident you are going to out eco (winning by sheer remass potential rather than OP units that win fights).

Problem is that a lot of civs can do the late game plan almost as well while being much stronger in the early and mid game, so you never really get to enjoy the benefits of your boom.
When you play Japan you get the feeling that the longer the game goes the higher your winning chances.
When you play Port you get the feeling that if the game goes too long your opponent will just catch you back - if he ever was behind in eco at some point. Because in fact with the map control/TP line/vill shipments in their favour ports' opponents are almost never really behind in eco.
And ports late game units are average at best - the goons are obviously great but their skirms don't win skirms wars, their hand cav is so-so and their artillery is bad.

Also right now full water boom is never worth it and it was the most fun thing to do as ports.

I think you should look for options that make their boom harder but more rewarding (like faster training vills ? Makes the early boom more costly but scale better ? or stronger eco upgrades shipments ? Or a huge buff to landgrab for easy mill transition ?).

[dansil92]

Perhaps it's simply that since (and i know im exaggerating a bit here but hear me out), nearly every other civ is played like ports in the meta- aging and spamming tcs, with tps being popular ways to boost early eco. The difference being that spamming vills is literally your only real boom option- no shrines no manors no banks, no trickles, no wonders, nothing interesting.

Since ports is fairly one dimensional- trash colonial (and i seriously mean awful, I'd play spain and china colonial before ports), a decent fortress age, but you'll never win a falc war and you have so many vills to cue off of your limited early economy. in age IV you dont have much to look forward to, especially now. 2 heavy cannon and 5 organ guns are the only shipments i enjoy there now and thats really not anything special. Its just a boring civ and their unique units are just inferior versions of normal units. Rof change just means you overkill so much and its just hard to micro well. most games "minutemen" is your most made unit if thats any indication of where its at


My suggestions here to add some flair to the civ would be
-Some way of tacking food crates onto shipments either like spanish gold or by default
-revert cassadore rof but give a small buff to the old stats
-idk its just a boring civ design there's not much that can be done without overhauling something major

[harcha]

give them free coats and blunderbuss, call it a day

[wardyb1]

Also I think it worth thinking about just how much wall nerf may have hurt them. Considering they aren't considered all that good on re then wall nerf on ep, do their other changes make up for that?

[chronique]

Since ports is fairly one dimensional- trash colonial (and i seriously mean awful, I'd play spain and china colonial before ports)

Port colo is better than spain colo (and prob better than china too).

[Makrokosmos12]

Well, cassadores are actually good now, you have the best goons, organs are really good now. they also got the free berry and hunting buff in last major patch.

Most players feel weak about Port, because they only excell on water and TP maps. The are not as good on your "standard land" map or even low ress map.

Also not very many have port as their main civ maybye? I really like the new cassador with low RoF and high damage. I adds weaknesses and strengts to the unit and fits the flavour of a "cassador" which means jaeger.
Low RoF. high damage, high range and high range resistance is what this type unit should resemble.
Pls dont change it, its not the thing that makes ports weak, maybye you need to give them another way to be good oncommon land maps like arkansas or alaska.

Maybye just ask aiz or kynesie in port matters, lol. At leats they would know what makes port strong or weak.

[Challenger_Marco]

I don't think there are much port players ,ageofkiller aka breeze is not active anymore and ports water boom is one of the best in game.I'm not sure what should be buffed for ports.

[chronique]

Maybye just ask aiz or kynesie in port matters, lol. At leats they would know what makes port strong or weak.

Aiz would said "port op civ because they can train pik"

[Hazza54321]

hard to buff ports to not make them broken on atp and sea, if they even need a buff.

[Makrokosmos12]

Maybye just ask aiz or kynesie in port matters, lol. At leats they would know what makes port strong or weak.

Aiz would said "port op civ because they can train pik"

Kek. You can even go Piki/halb/cassa = free win

[Darwin_]

Ports are just so boring, there is hardly anything special or remarkable about them besides good age 4 goons and organ guns. Also, playing them in team games is unrewarding as they just seem so powerful even though you don't have to do really anything special.

Honestly, I don't really have any ideas about how to fix them that don't involve redesigning large elements of the civ. They're just a skirm goon 3 hands in dick kind of civ and I don't think there is any elegant way to fix that.

[duckzilla]

Ports are at the opposite end of Ottomans.
Ottomans have a nice aggression potential with many varieties. You can rush in colo, you can do ff for mams and falcs, you can do an FI for fast revolution. The choice is yours. The only thing that you cannot do is booming.
Ports don't have aggressive options and not much variety. You can stay in colo and lose. You can do an ff and boom. You can do an FI and boom. Whatever you do, you will stay defensively and boom. The only thing that you cannot really do is attacking.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Port has agressive options. You can 10/10 and build a forward rax with a forward TC.

[Hazza54321]

aiz does a great job of aggro ports, id reccomend watching him if u want any ideas for ports

[Squamiger]

i think what makes them boring is what other people have said in this thread but I forget who-- their unique units are just weaker versions of normal units. and by that I mean cassador and organ guns. Goons are also really underwhelming to have as your"star" unit. When you win with a huge goon spam it just feels kinda cheap and lame and when you don't win, it just feels really impotent.

here's my suggestion, the one unit that portugal has that is actually fun and strong and has potential is the Musketeer. I think the move to bring musket upgrades down to an earlier age in EP was a move in the right direction. Maybe something more should be done to encourage Ports as a musket civ? Like what if Ports could go toe to toe with Brits in an age 2 musket war, would that be too OP?

[duckzilla]

Sounds nice, but brits have multiple advantages over ports in colo currently.
1. Brits have good cavalry to supplement their musks (cav upgrade cards available)
2. Brits have a better skirm-type unit with the longbow, again to supplement
3. Brits have a much better boom and outscale ports in colo
4. Brits' musk upgrade cards also affect another unit available in colo: the grenadier

[Peachrocks]

Ports are actually my most played civ but that’s primarily because you can send atp in age 1 due to not having solid first shipment options and everyone knows I like to build dem natives.

I think Esoc has done a lot to subtly nerf Portugal. TCs cost less, water isn’t as good (though this may be for the best), and the last patch removed the vill change. Also I think the Cass change was not the right one, yeah it’s unique but ultimately you overkill things and end up doing less damage.

Realistically the one thing that makes Port unique and could be fun is the fact they don’t get any economic shipment in age 1 (outside of atp and schooners which aren’t always applicable) no trickles, no vills and economic theory is too slow. This disadvantage however comes with some level of interesting options which could be played with. Giving them a variety of interesting options here might help, like boosting the explorer card for example to give them better scouting and/or stronger treasure gathering. After all exploring was kinda their thing.

I mean it’s not really historical but you could also give them better native options since they can get atp early. Natives getting buffed as well as some interesting options for age 1 or later cards could add some level of uniqueness to them that isn’t just sit back and boom.