EP9: PORTUGUESE

[sebnan12]

@Development Team can we have "mute garja" option please?

or u can also just leave esoc like u said ud do about 5 times a week

[deleted_user]

@Development Team can we have "mute garja" option please?

or u can also just leave esoc like u said ud do about 5 times a week

qutoe my 5 post where I said so, ty

[deleted_user]

btw it's funny how some mad players claim ports are good civ but they also whine like crazy when germany recieves very little nerfs lmao

[Hazza54321]

You mean the 3 big german nerfs :DDD

[dansil92]

This is the quality content i signed up for

[chronique]

Port definitely not a good civ, in my data there are nothing in that way.

[iCourt]

Hmm seems consensus is to give ports another eco boost in the form of free upgrades or pseudo villager cards.

Not sure how that makes them more fun to play?

Seems like an ugly way to standardize the civ.

EDIT: Also ports are fine most likely from a balance perspective. They probably don't need any eco boost. I still believe if you want to make them more "fun" as Mike was asking for you need to look into the Portuguese gimmicks and further them. A unit range increase for colonial units, or a dynamic first shipment, or even making dragoons more annoying in age 3. There is something with the gimmicks they already are known for that can be done to make the civ more fun. I'm not sure what the best option is, but I do know giving them a pseudo vill shipment is the wrong direction.

[harcha]

Hmm seems consensus is to give ports another eco boost in the form of free upgrades or pseudo villager cards.

Not sure how that makes them more fun to play?

Seems like an ugly way to standardize the civ.

where did you get this consensus?

[iCourt]

Read the entire thread.

One half is no changes. Other half seems to be for some sort of eco boost.

Neither in my opinion help with the OP question on how to make the civ more "fun".

[harcha]

Multiple times people said port is fine, just boring.

[Kaiserklein]

Hmm seems consensus is to give ports another eco boost in the form of free upgrades or pseudo villager cards.

Not sure how that makes them more fun to play?

Seems like an ugly way to standardize the civ.

EDIT: Also ports are fine most likely from a balance perspective. They probably don't need any eco boost. I still believe if you want to make them more "fun" as Mike was asking for you need to look into the Portuguese gimmicks and further them. A unit range increase for colonial units, or a dynamic first shipment, or even making dragoons more annoying in age 3. There is something with the gimmicks they already are known for that can be done to make the civ more fun. I'm not sure what the best option is, but I do know giving them a pseudo vill shipment is the wrong direction.

No one is ever gonna give port a vil shipment or anything similar. I'm not sure where you read that but it's not happening.
Also creating a new discovery shipment or increasing the range of units isn't happening either. We need reasonable changes that keep us close to what we already have, don't have time to experiment this kind of funky stuff anymore.

I personally think EP cassadores and EP organs make the civ more fun already. Both units are stronger and have much more micro potential than on RE, which is nice as they're unique units. The fact 10/10 is more viable is also fun. And in terms of balance, the civ is in a good spot.
So why change anything?

[duckzilla]

give musks +2 range

[chronique]

I personally think EP cassadores and EP organs make the civ more fun already. Both units are stronger and have much more micro potential than on RE, which is nice as they're unique units.

i am not sure abotu cassa, i agree with you, its better like that, but not sure if this new cassa is realy stronger. For what i know, you are the only who said that.

Also, because i don't play porto, i can't realy give my point of view about cassa, i think its better because it make the civ more unique, but if ppl don't like the new unit :/ .

[Kaiserklein]

No one plays ports, they just didn't get used to the new cassadores. People complained about abus in the same way when their ROF was changed, and now everyone uses them just fine.

Cassadores are objectively more unique now. They objectively allow for more micro as well: poking is more rewarding and splitting fire is easier. They're objectively a stronger unit if well microed, since you can poke every 4.5 seconds with 50% higher attack, then run back with your extra 0.5 speed, also btw 25 attack is a number with nice break points (e.g 3 shooting musks).
I honestly can't think of a single drawback of this change, except the fact that most people are lazy and essentially don't even want to micro.

[Astaroth]

I wonder if most port players, given the choice, wouldn't rather train skirms than cassas. They are just so darn squishy if they get caught by cav or cannons. Sure they can be strong with good micro, but for the most part, you don't want units that might just die on the spot if caught, even more so than regular skirms.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Skirms are better than RE cassas for sure. EP cassa are situationally better than skirms however, so it's not an easy choice.

[Cometk]

No one plays ports, they just didn't get used to the new cassadores. People complained about abus in the same way when their ROF was changed, and now everyone uses them just fine.

Cassadores are objectively more unique now. They objectively allow for more micro as well: poking is more rewarding and splitting fire is easier. They're objectively a stronger unit if well microed, since you can poke every 4.5 seconds with 50% higher attack, then run back with your extra 0.5 speed, also btw 25 attack is a number with nice break points (e.g 3 shooting musks).
I honestly can't think of a single drawback of this change, except the fact that most people are lazy and essentially don't even want to micro.

the drawback is that they're worse in drawn-out fights due to overkill and killing opposing units less frequently. you might say "well just micro, noob" but that only speaks to the unit's utility in situations where you can micro. that fact informs how someone should play while using cassadors, which in this circumstance is probably a good thing, as it means the player needs to be proactive with his cass and specifically take engagements where he will be able to utilize his unit's advantages. still, no micro situations (this includes simple z-move and splitting up groups micro imo) are just as much a part of the game generally (ex. low & mid level games, team games) and in those cases the unit performs worse than it previously did

[Kaiserklein]

Skirms are better than RE cassas for sure. EP cassa are situationally better than skirms however, so it's not an easy choice.

EP cassas cost 75f 35g right? Easily cheaper than skirms. Plus I don't know what drawback they have compared to skirms anyway, assuming good micro.
I'd choose cassadores any day.

[Garja]

Current EP cassas are actually garbage and I'm surprised everyone is so positive about them.
Having lower ROF means that if they overkill on a volley (and they do more often now with higher base attack) then you lose tons of dps. There are situations where you can't objectively spread fire and you just z-move them. If they're clumped together they're gonna shoot few units and overkill massively.
You can argue as much as you want that they gained in efficiency with the EP change but the unit is just awful to use and reason why I would never play Ports vs like Japan, when in fact with normal cassas I used to at least try that MU.
On a related note, EP abus guns are also garbage but at least it's an hybrid infantry/artillery unit that you're supposed to micro carefully. Even tho I strongly dislike the change it makes more sense for abus. Cassas can totally have that design (originally they were like that) but for practical purposes it's just bad (at least when you start having a considerable amount of them).

Aside from this, both RE and EP cassas do well vs skirms because of the high rr% and their cost. In fact RE cassas is quite a nice unit and it would be great with EP infantry ups moved to the earlier ages. Shame now it's a weirdass slow shooting unit.

[Kaiserklein]

the drawback is that they're worse in drawn-out fights due to overkill and killing opposing units less frequently. you might say "well just micro, noob" but that only speaks to the unit's utility in situations where you can micro. that fact informs how someone should play while using cassadors, which in this circumstance is probably a good thing, as it means the player needs to be proactive with his cass and specifically take engagements where he will be able to utilize his unit's advantages. still, no micro situations (this includes simple z-move and splitting up groups micro imo) are just as much a part of the game generally (ex. low & mid level games, team games) and in those cases the unit performs worse than it previously did

Overkill is bigger I guess, but yeah that's assuming poor micro. "killing opposing units less frequently", so what? Their volleys (including the first volley) are stronger so they should kill more units instantly. It should mathematically just cancel out, lower ROF cassadores shouldn't mean a worse drop-off effect or anything.
Also you're saying we should make the unit easy to use because lower level players can't micro? So the ROF has to be 3 because people can't get used to anything else? No, fuck people

[Cometk]

the drawback is that they're worse in drawn-out fights due to overkill and killing opposing units less frequently. you might say "well just micro, noob" but that only speaks to the unit's utility in situations where you can micro. that fact informs how someone should play while using cassadors, which in this circumstance is probably a good thing, as it means the player needs to be proactive with his cass and specifically take engagements where he will be able to utilize his unit's advantages. still, no micro situations (this includes simple z-move and splitting up groups micro imo) are just as much a part of the game generally (ex. low & mid level games, team games) and in those cases the unit performs worse than it previously did

Overkill is bigger I guess, but yeah that's assuming poor micro. "killing opposing units less frequently", so what? Their volleys (including the first volley) are stronger so they should kill more units instantly. It should mathematically just cancel out, lower ROF cassadores shouldn't mean a worse drop-off effect or anything.

the longer an engagement goes on the less important the first volley becomes

Also you're saying we should make the unit easy to use because lower level players can't micro? So the ROF has to be 3 because people can't get used to anything else? No, fuck people

[Garja]

The two things don't cancel out. In most cases they overkill. In a fewer cases the the highest base damage turns out to be useful (e.g. sniping artillery).
And no, it's not about making the unit easier for lower levels (tho there is merit in that too) but rather that Ports will often struggle in RI vs RI battles due to the overkill. This is why I suggested to make organs somewhat cheaper (more viable) and also besteiros.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Skirms are better than RE cassas for sure. EP cassa are situationally better than skirms however, so it's not an easy choice.

EP cassas cost 75f 35g right? Easily cheaper than skirms. Plus I don't know what drawback they have compared to skirms anyway, assuming good micro.
I'd choose cassadores any day.

Weaker against cav and artillery. And overkill also.

[dansil92]

Not gonna lie, i think the cass change just incentivises using musks. Its not even that they're harder to micro its that they're just less effective except at sniping high hp units like cav or artillery, which isn't what i want my skirms for, thats what my goons are for

[Kaiserklein]

Eh I just give up, it's pointless anyway as people aren't able to micro at all, can't expect them to appreciate a cool unit