EP9: PORTUGUESE
- chronique
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Re: EP9: PORTUGUESE
I think with this cassa you need to play full time porto (or be kaiserklein) and its not worth it. If you want play in tourney, its better to play fr/iro/german because there unit are quite similar. I like the new (old to me) cassa, but i understand why peaple don't like it.
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- Ninja
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Re: EP9: PORTUGUESE
I always said the main issue of ports but german lobby is too strong here yea
Goon nerf is quite significant and nothing other than reverting goon nerf can be alternate to ports like i said millions of times.. Atleast try %25 rr? don't be too stubborn
Goon nerf is quite significant and nothing other than reverting goon nerf can be alternate to ports like i said millions of times.. Atleast try %25 rr? don't be too stubborn
Re: EP9: PORTUGUESE
What is “German lobby” vying for? They’re getting the worst fixed crate start of any civilization on ep9 besides Chinadeleted_user wrote:I always said the main issue of ports but german lobby is too strong here yea
Goon nerf is quite significant and nothing other than reverting goon nerf can be alternate to ports like i said millions of times.. Atleast try %25 rr? don't be too stubborn
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- Lancer
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Re: EP9: PORTUGUESE
Eh you could always make their Crossbows be able to compete with cards and options so that if people don’t like the 4.5 ROF on Cass they have another option that doesn’t obsolete. Give cards that increase the range or do whatever is necessary to make them a legitimate alternative. Just a suggestion.
Personally I feel the 4.5 rof is more of a disadvantage but I can see the appeal and the uniqueness is nice.
Personally I feel the 4.5 rof is more of a disadvantage but I can see the appeal and the uniqueness is nice.
- [Armag] diarouga
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Re: EP9: PORTUGUESE
They're getting unnerfed at the same time, so nothing to complain about.Cometk wrote:What is “German lobby” vying for? They’re getting the worst fixed crate start of any civilization on ep9 besides Chinadeleted_user wrote:I always said the main issue of ports but german lobby is too strong here yea
Goon nerf is quite significant and nothing other than reverting goon nerf can be alternate to ports like i said millions of times.. Atleast try %25 rr? don't be too stubborn
- harcha
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Re: EP9: PORTUGUESE
what, having guard crossbows in fortress age is not a legitimate alternative?Peachrocks wrote:Eh you could always make their Crossbows be able to compete with cards and options so that if people don’t like the 4.5 ROF on Cass they have another option that doesn’t obsolete. Give cards that increase the range or do whatever is necessary to make them a legitimate alternative. Just a suggestion.
Personally I feel the 4.5 rof is more of a disadvantage but I can see the appeal and the uniqueness is nice.
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
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- Lancer
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Re: EP9: PORTUGUESE
Not at the price it asks (both the card and resource cost and yes even with the change) and there's no imperial upgrade, which especially for a civ like Port can be in the back of your mind. Furthermore 16 range is a significant liability.harcha wrote:what, having guard crossbows in fortress age is not a legitimate alternative?Peachrocks wrote:Eh you could always make their Crossbows be able to compete with cards and options so that if people don’t like the 4.5 ROF on Cass they have another option that doesn’t obsolete. Give cards that increase the range or do whatever is necessary to make them a legitimate alternative. Just a suggestion.
Personally I feel the 4.5 rof is more of a disadvantage but I can see the appeal and the uniqueness is nice.
I mean maybe I'm wrong, but do they get serious use? I suppose that's a non applicable question because the question at the start of the thread is talking about Portugal being underused, never mind about a niche option.
- GiBthedurrty
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Re: EP9: PORTUGUESE
ESOC is so oppressive
Re: EP9: PORTUGUESE
Bestieros would be so much better if you got like half the number of xbows from the tech and had it at a reasonable cost like 800 wood or so. Its currently just so unachievable and ports as an unironic xbow civ could give... a unique appeal on low gold maps
- harcha
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Re: EP9: PORTUGUESE
that doesn't seem like a reasonable price for a guard upgrade in fortress agedansil92 wrote:Bestieros would be so much better if you got like half the number of xbows from the tech and had it at a reasonable cost like 800 wood or so. Its currently just so unachievable and ports as an unironic xbow civ could give... a unique appeal on low gold maps
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
Re: EP9: PORTUGUESE
Its a guard tech on xbows lolharcha wrote:that doesn't seem like a reasonable price for a guard upgrade in fortress agedansil92 wrote:Bestieros would be so much better if you got like half the number of xbows from the tech and had it at a reasonable cost like 800 wood or so. Its currently just so unachievable and ports as an unironic xbow civ could give... a unique appeal on low gold maps
Plus a card. Westernization is 900 wood for vet everything for Russia
- iCourt
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Re: EP9: PORTUGUESE
Nah it's a cool unique unit. Just way more situational now. Not as versatile as a skirm. Kinda like a less effective abus which it sort of is.Kaiserklein wrote:Eh I just give up, it's pointless anyway as people aren't able to micro at all, can't expect them to appreciate a cool unit
I'm not against the change to Cass and personally it makes the civ more unique. That's why I'm very much for unique changes to the civ rather than standardizing changes if any changes happen to take place at all.
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- Lancer
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Re: EP9: PORTUGUESE
You could give Bestieros the Longbow treatment. Make the upgrade available without a card but the church card tech sends a bunch of them and gives them range instead rather than the complications a guard upgrade in age 3 can bring? I mean there's something similar for Doppels with Germany, not that anyone uses it but there is precedent.
Re: EP9: PORTUGUESE
Doesn't 4.5 ROF cass go against EP policy? Like wasn't everyone unhappy with zoi's random changes yet all of sudden some are in defence of a skirm having 4.5 ROF which no other skirm has. It is completely outside the norm of a skirm unit. Again I think ports have just lost some of their gimmick. They just don't get that reward they used to for surviving till the 4th age. I'd look at undoing possible nerfs to its jinetes, undo the changes to cass and possibly just give it a small hp buff or range resist buff to keep it inline with its original principles while being better at standing and fighting. That's really all they need.
“To love the journey is to accept no such end. I have found, through painful experience, that the most important step a person can take is always the next one.”
Re: EP9: PORTUGUESE
4.5 rof cass goes back to 2005 when thats how cassadores were originally madewardyb1 wrote:Doesn't 4.5 ROF cass go against EP policy? Like wasn't everyone unhappy with zoi's random changes yet all of sudden some are in defence of a skirm having 4.5 ROF which no other skirm has. It is completely outside the norm of a skirm unit. Again I think ports have just lost some of their gimmick. They just don't get that reward they used to for surviving till the 4th age. I'd look at undoing possible nerfs to its jinetes, undo the changes to cass and possibly just give it a small hp buff or range resist buff to keep it inline with its original principles while being better at standing and fighting. That's really all they need.
Re: EP9: PORTUGUESE
Except they clearly patched that out for some semblance of continuity between skirms. Idk it just seems antithetical to the idea of it as a skirmisher unit especially when it clearly isn't all that well received a good amount of players.dansil92 wrote:4.5 rof cass goes back to 2005 when thats how cassadores were originally madewardyb1 wrote:Doesn't 4.5 ROF cass go against EP policy? Like wasn't everyone unhappy with zoi's random changes yet all of sudden some are in defence of a skirm having 4.5 ROF which no other skirm has. It is completely outside the norm of a skirm unit. Again I think ports have just lost some of their gimmick. They just don't get that reward they used to for surviving till the 4th age. I'd look at undoing possible nerfs to its jinetes, undo the changes to cass and possibly just give it a small hp buff or range resist buff to keep it inline with its original principles while being better at standing and fighting. That's really all they need.
“To love the journey is to accept no such end. I have found, through painful experience, that the most important step a person can take is always the next one.”
Re: EP9: PORTUGUESE
I never said i liked it (i actually stated the opposite in a previous post) only that there was (is) a reason for it
Re: EP9: PORTUGUESE
What about this?duckzilla wrote:I would love seeing viable xbows for Ports in a similar way as longbows for British.iCourt wrote:Extra range on their xbows would perhaps allow sending early dragoons an option, and would mesh pretty well with the church besterios. That's just one of many gimmicks.
Why not adding an age II card that gives xbows +4 range to bring them on par with skirms? Additionally, one could improve the church card by adding an imperial upgrade option to xbows when researching Besteiros. It would combine the uniqueness of Port range upgrades and Besteiros and, ideally, create new viable options for Port colo play which do not reach a dead end after Industrial.
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.
Beati pauperes spiritu.
Beati pauperes spiritu.
- harcha
- Gendarme
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Re: EP9: PORTUGUESE
it probably makes them the most cost effective unit with 1 card sent. veteran is 400, guard is 1200, 22 xbow is 1760. i think the price is fine as it standsdansil92 wrote:Its a guard tech on xbows lolharcha wrote:that doesn't seem like a reasonable price for a guard upgrade in fortress agedansil92 wrote:Bestieros would be so much better if you got like half the number of xbows from the tech and had it at a reasonable cost like 800 wood or so. Its currently just so unachievable and ports as an unironic xbow civ could give... a unique appeal on low gold maps
Plus a card. Westernization is 900 wood for vet everything for Russia
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
Re: EP9: PORTUGUESE
It doesn't matter if the card is objectively good value in theory, if it is hardly worth it in practice because the initial price is too steep.
If you can have 2k+ wood lying around and afford to send a card from age2, you are probably already in a winning position anyway.
If the card is supposed to be viable, it should be cheaper but send less xbows, making it a realistic option in early age3.
If Germany had an age3 card that was 3k gold and sent some good mercs, also allowing you to train all of them, regardless of what the saloon otherwise says, it would hardly see much use.
Generally speaking, I do find it a bit funny that some people are so against buffing ports when they are quite clearly not that good.
Eg it seems quite obvious that Germany and France are both stronger than Ports overall. Yet neither France nor Germany is considered a tier1 civ by most players. This to me shows that many players are quite fine with ports being a lower tier civ overall.
Which might just be because so few people play them, giving them a weak lobby. Not to mention that basically every other top player absolutely despises playing against eg Kynesie ports and is afraid of buffing that, lol
If you can have 2k+ wood lying around and afford to send a card from age2, you are probably already in a winning position anyway.
If the card is supposed to be viable, it should be cheaper but send less xbows, making it a realistic option in early age3.
If Germany had an age3 card that was 3k gold and sent some good mercs, also allowing you to train all of them, regardless of what the saloon otherwise says, it would hardly see much use.
Generally speaking, I do find it a bit funny that some people are so against buffing ports when they are quite clearly not that good.
Eg it seems quite obvious that Germany and France are both stronger than Ports overall. Yet neither France nor Germany is considered a tier1 civ by most players. This to me shows that many players are quite fine with ports being a lower tier civ overall.
Which might just be because so few people play them, giving them a weak lobby. Not to mention that basically every other top player absolutely despises playing against eg Kynesie ports and is afraid of buffing that, lol
- harcha
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Re: EP9: PORTUGUESE
I would be ok with that compromise if the stat boost was reduced to smth like 20% 20% or less. Anyway i don't think top players would want this change, as it is another small and meaningless change to the list.Astaroth wrote:It doesn't matter if the card is objectively good value in theory, if it is hardly worth it in practice because the initial price is too steep.
If you can have 2k+ wood lying around and afford to send a card from age2, you are probably already in a winning position anyway.
If the card is supposed to be viable, it should be cheaper but send less xbows, making it a realistic option in early age3.
imo 2200w is not even that much if you get the units out of it quick
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
Re: EP9: PORTUGUESE
Well I think players who experienced true Port sea lame in RE quicksearch have some understandable PTSD.Astaroth wrote:
Generally speaking, I do find it a bit funny that some people are so against buffing ports when they are quite clearly not that good.
Eg it seems quite obvious that Germany and France are both stronger than Ports overall. Yet neither France nor Germany is considered a tier1 civ by most players. This to me shows that many players are quite fine with ports being a lower tier civ overall.
Which might just be because so few people play them, giving them a weak lobby. Not to mention that basically every other top player absolutely despises playing against eg Kynesie ports and is afraid of buffing that, lol
That being said, it does seem to factor into some tourney/EP decision-making I think. Nerfing Ports to be pretty much just a water civ, and then playing on map pools with very few or no water maps will inevitably lead to this result.
Something to keep in mind though is that civs have different power levels depending on the map pools. Ports were at their strongest on EP when they had both 80f vills AND a map pool with ridiculous hunts on almost every map. Now that the map pool has more moderate-resource maps, the balance has moved away from very hungry civs.
Re: EP9: PORTUGUESE
Sorry, but I think that comment is absurd.harcha wrote:I would be ok with that compromise if the stat boost was reduced to smth like 20% 20% or less. Anyway i don't think top players would want this change, as it is another small and meaningless change to the list.
imo 2200w is not even that much if you get the units out of it quick
Making Besteiros viable is not a small and meaningless change. It is giving Portuguese more uniqueness, more flexibility, and makes playing them more interesting for casual players.
So you agree with it, when it is directly nerfed to be inviable again. That would, indeed, be a meaningless change.harcha wrote:I would be ok with that compromise if the stat boost was reduced to smth like 20% 20% or less. Anyway i don't think top players would want this change, as it is another small and meaningless change to the list.
imo 2200w is not even that much if you get the units out of it quick
Where is the problem in making Besteiros a viable alternative, even if it ends up mostly used in team games or lower ranks? Does it make Ports magically overpowered?
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.
Beati pauperes spiritu.
Beati pauperes spiritu.
- harcha
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Re: EP9: PORTUGUESE
Where did i say this? I remain of the opinion that they are already reasonably viable. Making them more viable could be too strong.duckzilla wrote:So you agree with it, when it is directly nerfed to be inviable again.harcha wrote:I would be ok with that compromise if the stat boost was reduced to smth like 20% 20% or less. Anyway i don't think top players would want this change, as it is another small and meaningless change to the list.
imo 2200w is not even that much if you get the units out of it quick
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
Re: EP9: PORTUGUESE
They are not really viable in a competitive 1v1 as a part of a regular build, unless you've both run out of gold or you're already winning anyway. How often do you see them used by port players?
I just don't see a rather slow (as in, little early mass in age 3) defensive civ like ports banking over 2k wood while the opponent is doing what exactly? Either kill you or mass more and stronger units.
I just see zero evidence of the card being used or being remotely viable in a standard game.
I'd argue that sending them is a reasonable option in max 5-10 % of all port games and one of the best option in way less than that.
I just don't see a rather slow (as in, little early mass in age 3) defensive civ like ports banking over 2k wood while the opponent is doing what exactly? Either kill you or mass more and stronger units.
I just see zero evidence of the card being used or being remotely viable in a standard game.
I'd argue that sending them is a reasonable option in max 5-10 % of all port games and one of the best option in way less than that.
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