EP 9 Beta #2

[Mitoe]

SUBJECT TO CHANCE
LAST UPDATED AUGUST 16, 2020

Changelist from EP beta 9.0: viewtopic.php?f=80&t=20802
GENERAL
- Churches now provide a small 0.60 xp trickle (up from 0.4)
- Forts now have a 110xp build bounty (from 0xp)

NATIVES
- French & Iroquois "Native Warrior Combat" shipment reduced to 20% (down from 25%)
- Native Warrior "Champion" upgrades reduced to 35% (from 40%)
- "Native Treaties" shipment now delivers 3 Mapuche Clubmen instead of 5 when allied with Mapuche


- "8 Cherokee Allies" card increased to 9
(Iroquois, British)

- "8 Cree Allies" card increased to 9
(Iroquois, Sioux)

- "6 Huron Allies" card increased to 7; cost decreased to 450c (from 500c)
(Iroquois, France)


NAVAJO

Navajo don't really fit into the counter system and may be slightly too strong. Going to tune them down slightly and see how things go.

- Hitpoints decreased to 190 (from 200)


CHINA
- "Hire 26 Rattan Shields" card reduced to 24 Rattans
Shipment was already quite strong, and Rattans have +1 attack now.

DUTCH
- Starting crates fixed to 100f 400c 200w (from 500c 200w)
- "Coffee Trade" research time REVERTED to 15 seconds (from 30); now reduces military speed by 10% once again

GERMANY
- Shipment XP cost penalty reduced to 7% (from 8%)
Some players have expressed concerns that Germany may be at a significant disadvantage without the crates to consistently make a TP every game like many other civs. We're increasing the significance of the XP cost buff slightly to compensate.

INDIA
- 6 Sepoy shipment REVERTED to 5 Sepoy
- 700 Wood shipment REVERTED to 600 Wood
India may be in a decent spot right now, with fixed crates. Going to try a couple of reverts and see how it affects them.
- "Hire 7 Chakrams" shipment cost decreased to 450c (from 500c)

JAPAN
- Shrine cost reverted to 125w (from 120w)
Japan is a civilization we want to be very careful with, especially since the nerf to Trading Posts is arguably a significant buff. Shrine cost was originally changed to help stabilize the civ a bit on non-wood starts. Now that crates are fixed, it may no longer be necessary.

OTTOMAN
- Mosque cost increased to 150w (from 100w)
With fixed crates, getting a Mosque + TP is a little bit too obvious. This should add a bit of decision making in the early game. Either gather 50w for the extra XP income, or save to age more quickly.
- Mosque XP trickle increased to 0.75xp (from 0.7)
Should hopefully not be a problem since the Mosque is harder to get now, and will also help Otto on non-TP maps where other civs also have a slight buff now.

PORTUGUESE
- Cassador ROF REVERTED to 3.0 (from 4.5)
- Cassador Attack REVERTED to 17 (from 25)
- 5% hunt/berry gather bonus removed; now starts the game with Hunting Dogs automatically researched

RUSSIA
- Veteran upgrades REVERTED to 200w 200c (from 200w 100c)
- Musketeer batch cost decreased to 280f, 95c (from 285f, 95c)
Reverting the somewhat "unusual" buff in exchange for reducing the cost of the Russian musketeer to be more similar to RE Patch cost (281.25f, 93.75c).

SIOUX
- "6 Cheyenne Allies" increased to 7
- "6 Comanche Allies" increased to 8

SPANISH
- "9 Mayan Allies" increased to 11

[CaRp]

- "Coffee Trade" upgrade now reduces the hitpoints of banks by 10% instead of infantry speed.

I like that change. It's what I expected

[chronique]

- "8 Cree Allies" card increased to 9
(Iroquois, Sioux)

- "6 Huron Allies" card increased to 7; cost decreased to 450c (from 500c)
(Iroquois, France)

Ahahaha, ok time to switch iro again!

[dansil92]

Those cheyenne allies for sioux have a default anticav multi now, correct?

[Mitoe]

Those cheyenne allies for sioux have a default anticav multi now, correct?

This is correct. I kinda forgot about that actually. Guess we'll find out if it's broken or not soon!

[BrookG]

I really like the concept of a 2nd beta

[aligator92]

SPANISH
- "9 Mayan Allies" increased to 11

Queen Isabella is gonna reach PR 40 soon

[Rohbrot]

@chronique , do ur op mayan rush now much stronger

[deleted_user]

I dreamt this the other night and maybe edeholland thinks it can be in DE. I dreamt this: that when a falc is in run mode there is a button you can click that sacs the heavy artillery gun and converts the unit into two hand cavalry units.

Now this isn't really useful in a game because falcs are more useful than huss, and it only really matters if your falcs are caught by 2 cav or you are in massive art v art war/cav vs art fights, which is what I was dreaming of. I was dreaming that I was playing a smurf and he was doing this fancy sac-the-falc-into-hussars micro but I was doing fancier, similar micro and the whole dream was just us running around in circles converting lil bombards into uhlans each and I thought maybe edeholland can put it in DE.

[Rohbrot]

I like that we focus on natives on ep9. Sad it wasnt made in previous patches , always wanted that natives should be a big part of normal gameplay rather than cheese.

[chronique]

@chronique , do ur op mayan rush now much stronger

My huron/cherok rush is the next meta

[harcha]

- "Coffee Trade" upgrade now reduces the hitpoints of banks by 10% instead of infantry speed.

I like that change. It's what I expected

I dislike this change. Now there is no malice for this tech. Might as well remove it. Or make it significant like 50%. By the time you research this (you're going for the 6th bank) there is no danger of a siege rush anymore, it's just a matter of raiding - being raidable. How much siege HP can you actually kill in a raid?

[gibson]

People always flamed zoi patches for irrelevant changes, and now we have this xD

[kevinitalien]

sad to see the old cassador again, I liked the unique aspect of this unique even if it is not obvious in micro suddenly, I do not like the change cofee trade, as said harcha there is no more disadvantage to the technology and therefore it is too strong and to finish I am happy to see its for the Germans, hoping that it will save them a little (even if I prefer the 190 hp uhlan personally to the 107% xp )

[dutchdude117]

People always flamed zoi patches for irrelevant changes, and now we have this xD

What are you talking about?

[Jets]

Dutch banks still have a lot of HP, units, on the other hand should have less hp, remarking how cheap are for the Dutch to mass military units, but a slightly weaker ones.

Ports with hunting dogs it's just the same treatment as India with wood tech, originally those civs would rely on their mass of vills on mid to late game, it's the core of those civ. Idk why they're still buffing their early play. India has 1 vill per shipment to fullfil the wood cost of them, Ports have 1 TC per age to simultaneously create them.
Just stop giving techs for free.

Plus, the Port explorer with its unique ability can help you find food treasures before your opponent does, to age up faster, I mean, when you start balancing a civ, there should be a general view involving other factors that affect their overall performance.
Same for India, they can easily get wood treasures on age1 with their 2 explorers, and they never run out of wood on mid game, literally they could be spamming walls with all the wood they have. No civ should have a better start than the others to compensate early problems that can progressively be solved with their own civ design.
Hunting dogs = 100w for a market, 50w 50c that needs to be gathered, all of that involves some vills seconds imo.

[Mr_Bramboy]

- "Coffee Trade" upgrade now reduces the hitpoints of banks by 10% instead of infantry speed.

I like that change. It's what I expected

I dislike this change. Now there is no malice for this tech. Might as well remove it. Or make it significant like 50%. By the time you research this (you're going for the 6th bank) there is no danger of a siege rush anymore, it's just a matter of raiding - being raidable. How much siege HP can you actually kill in a raid?

Agree. While a decrease in infantry speed is awkward, -10% bank hitpoints is meaningless at that point in the game.

So why not take a different (historic) approach. While Arabian Coffee had been introduced to Europe in the late Middle Ages, it wasn't until the 18th century when coffee became mainstream in Europe. The Dutch colonies in Java and Suriname became the main suppliers to Europe through the cruel oppression of the conquered peoples and slavery.

Put it like this: while coffee trade is exceptionally profitable, the widespread oppression in the colonies did lead famines, epidemics, and revolts. This means - in an aoe3 sense - that your maximum population should be decreased. My proposal: decrease the maximum population by 10%, scaling to the current maximum population. Meaning at x/200 you lose 20 pop, but at x/100 you only lose 10 pop. Numbers can be tweaked obviously.

[gibson]

People always flamed zoi patches for irrelevant changes, and now we have this xD

What are you talking about?

Mostly all the irrelevant native changes

[dansil92]

Id honestly prefer to see coffee trade increase the food cost of all banks afterwards, like 450f 350w. Then its a gamble, and building those 2 banks is more difficult. If you have to rebuild a bank or 3 in the future, also hurts. Or an upfront resource cost or both. That tech is too good and the speed penalty was just too punishing. I think we need a middle ground and i dont feel 10% hp is it. Maybe a much larger hp penalty perhaps but I'm not certain thats ideal

[Mitoe]

People always flamed zoi patches for irrelevant changes, and now we have this xD

That's only because people were incredibly biased against him, to be honest.

[lemmings121]

about dutch church card, I really dont think it should be changed, but if people really think its needed, at least consider the feedback I gave a month ago.
viewtopic.php?p=466017#p466017

DUTCH
- "Coffee Trade" upgrade no longer reduces military speed; research time increased to 30 seconds (from 15)


Isn't this buff too big to a single card? one card will enable 7 banks + church mercenaries

My suggestion:

- "Coffee Trade" upgrade no longer reduces military speed; research time increased to 30 seconds (from 15); only unlocks ONE extra bank
- "Bank of Amsterdan" (age1 card): unlocks 2 extra banks (instead of one)

this way there is some decision in what you want, instead of making the church card super good, you should choose if you want one bank+mercs, or 2 banks. Endgame result after sending both cards is the same, but you dont have the op one card

[Garja]

People always flamed zoi patches for irrelevant changes, and now we have this xD

That's only because people were incredibly biased against him, to be honest.

And because lot of his changes were bad.

[Mitoe]

I think we're just gonna revert the Coffee Trade stuff. It's not strictly a necessary change and it's over complicating things.

Maybe we can look into reducing the speed malice, or having it only affect infantry or something like that in the future.

[dansil92]

I think we're just gonna revert the Coffee Trade stuff. It's not strictly a necessary change and it's over complicating things.

Maybe we can look into reducing the speed malice, or having it only affect infantry or something like that in the future.

The fact that it affects ruyters (cant kite huss) and warships is / was ridiculous. Infantry penalty might be ok. +1

[Garja]

I think we're just gonna revert the Coffee Trade stuff. It's not strictly a necessary change and it's over complicating things.

Maybe we can look into reducing the speed malice, or having it only affect infantry or something like that in the future.

Make it affect villagers. "Coffee trade" was perhaps intended as drug trade. It does bring money but also reduce the productivity.