Aoe3 DE Gameplay Interview

[dansil92]

If you think that these things don't matter, you're part of the problem

[Kaiserklein]

Yeah I knew about that change before that interview, now devs just confirmed it's happening. But sure, we don't know that it will be in the game when it's released!

I can't wait to see Sioux and Iro fur trade on deccan! I'm sure that historical accuracy is a great progress for our society

[Kaiserklein]

If you think that these things don't matter, you're part of the problem

If you think they matter, you're just totally delusional and wasting your time and energy on this...

[Cometk]

Kaiser's post is stupid because no, an individual person does not have the power to stop the institutional racism of a police department or choose who is the fucking president. An individual does have the power, however, to write a story or make art that accurately reflects history.

Then go spend your time doing something useful in that regard if you want "progress"? And get off our fucking nuts when it's about a damn video game

Progress like writing a story that accurately reflects history and thus doesn't misrepresent a historically oppressed people? Especially to the many international folks who might otherwise not have access to the correct information about them?

Speaking frankly, I was completely ignorant of the fact that these civs didn't mine gold or have metallurgy prior to the announcement they were changing the way the civs worked in-game to be more historically accurate. It's made me interested to learn more, if anything.

[forgrin]

I'm glad this thread could educate us all on the fucking huge racism blind spot many top European players have.

[dansil92]

yes the man with mostly Cree relatives on his father's side is completely delusional as to the representation of his family's heritage...

[Black_Duck]

Kaiser's post is stupid because no, an individual person does not have the power to stop the institutional racism of a police department or choose who is the fucking president. An individual does have the power, however, to write a story or make art that accurately reflects history.

Then go spend your time doing something useful in that regard if you want "progress"? And get off our fucking nuts when it's about a damn video game

Progress like writing a story that accurately reflects history and thus doesn't misrepresent a historically oppressed people? Especially to the many international folks who might otherwise not have access to the correct information about them?

Im the perfect example of this. And to be fair Im sure we have all learned things from video games in the past.

[Black_Duck]

yes the man with mostly Cree relatives on his father's side is completely delusional as to the representation of his family's heritage...

What fraction Cree are you?

[[Armag] diarouga]

I'm glad this thread could educate us all on the fucking huge racism blind spot many top European players have.

To be fair, there is much more racism in America than in Europe, that's a fact, and that's why Americans care more about small details.

[Cometk]

Show hidden quotes

Kaiser's post is stupid because no, an individual person does not have the power to stop the institutional racism of a police department or choose who is the fucking president. An individual does have the power, however, to write a story or make art that accurately reflects history.

Then go spend your time doing something useful in that regard if you want "progress"? And get off our fucking nuts when it's about a damn video game

Progress like writing a story that accurately reflects history and thus doesn't misrepresent a historically oppressed people? Especially to the many international folks who might otherwise not have access to the correct information about them?

Im the perfect example of this. And to be fair Im sure we have all learned things from video games in the past.

The reason I took 5 years of French language classes in middle school & high school is because I had gotten hooked on playing them in Age of Empires: Age of Kings!

[Cometk]

I'm glad this thread could educate us all on the fucking huge racism blind spot many top European players have.

To be fair, there is much more racism in America than in Europe, that's why Americans care more about small details.

There's not "much more racism". The racism just manifests itself in different ways.

[[Armag] diarouga]

I'm glad this thread could educate us all on the fucking huge racism blind spot many top European players have.

To be fair, there is much more racism in America than in Europe, that's why Americans care more about small details.

There's not "much more racism". The racism just manifests itself in different ways.

I don't know about that. Regardless, people care less about this kind of political detail in Europe.

[Kaiserklein]

Progress like writing a story that accurately reflects history and thus doesn't misrepresent a historically oppressed people? Especially to the many international folks who might otherwise not have access to the correct information about them?

See, that's the core of the problem. What does the fact they were oppressed have to do with anything here? Like, because they were oppressed, representing them mining gold is offensive? What?
You can totally be respectful and acknowledge they were oppressed while still tweaking historical details for the sake of gameplay... That's what happens all the time in this game, there's so many inaccuracies for that reason lol. But because they got oppressed, apparently having them mine gold is not right (???).
This is really just masturbation. It's totally useless. Hey, they could tweak the campaign to reflect more accurately how these people were oppressed, that would actually raise awareness, and also wouldn't ruin the civs...

Speaking frankly, I was completely ignorant of the fact that these civs didn't mine gold or have metallurgy prior to the announcement they were changing the way the civs worked in-game to be more historically accurate. It's made me interested to learn more, if anything.

I actually knew that, because their arrows were made of burnt wood iirc, as they didn't have metal for the tip of it.
Anyway, are we really trying to educate people with aoe3? Cause if that's the case, we're in a lot of trouble, seeing how inaccurate the game is, in so many aspects.

[Kaiserklein]

I'm glad this thread could educate us all on the fucking huge racism blind spot many top European players have.

Haha, are you calling me a racist because I don't care if sioux and iro mine gold in game? Is this really happening or did I misunderstand? XD

Really getting so sick of this PC bullshit, man I'm so glad I don't live in NA. You guys really have issues.

[japanesegeneral]

Progress like writing a story that accurately reflects history and thus doesn't misrepresent a historically oppressed people? Especially to the many international folks who might otherwise not have access to the correct information about them?

See, that's the core of the problem. What does the fact they were oppressed have to do with anything here? Like, because they were oppressed, representing them mining gold is offensive? What?
You can totally be respectful and acknowledge they were oppressed while still tweaking historical details for the sake of gameplay... That's what happens all the time in this game, there's so many inaccuracies for that reason lol. But because they got oppressed, apparently having them mine gold is not right (???).
This is really just masturbation. It's totally useless. Hey, they could tweak the campaign to reflect more accurately how these people were oppressed, that would actually raise awareness, and also wouldn't ruin the civs...

Speaking frankly, I was completely ignorant of the fact that these civs didn't mine gold or have metallurgy prior to the announcement they were changing the way the civs worked in-game to be more historically accurate. It's made me interested to learn more, if anything.

I actually knew that, because their arrows were made of burnt wood iirc, as they didn't have metal for the tip of it.
Anyway, are we really trying to educate people with aoe3? Cause if that's the case, we're in a lot of trouble, seeing how inaccurate the game is, in so many aspects.

100% this.

[Cometk]

I think we need to enable Indian villagers to eat cows and remove the fact that their livestock generates XP. We must standardize them to be like European civilizations otherwise they will not be balanced at all

[Squamiger]

I feel like everyone is getting upset because we're all a little anxious about our favorite game and community changing. It's been very comfy here on ESOC the last few years I've been here, and everyone has been really nice for the most part. Now we're all about to plunge into a bigger world where we will no longer have the same engagement with the balance changes or the development or the tournaments.

I really think we should just wait to see how this turns out. I think we need to remember that this one mechanic might not actually be the main change to Iro and Sioux. It might just be the change that the interviewee was willing to discuss, as a teaser. It sounded like actually, the Iro and Sioux civs are getting a complete overhaul, with the idea of making the more historically accurate. So maybe it's better to think of it like this: Iro and Sioux are being removed from the game. We are getting 4 new civs, Inca, Swedes, Iro and Sioux!

[comradecommissar]

I'm glad this thread could educate us all on the fucking huge racism blind spot many top European players have.

Haha, are you calling me a racist because I don't care if sioux and iro mine gold in game? Is this really happening or did I misunderstand? XD

Really getting so sick of this PC bullshit, man I'm so glad I don't live in NA. You guys really have issues.

Dude constantly saying 'really sick of this PC bullshit' isn't an argument. Also, while we're on it, using words like 'I raped x or y' in the context of the game isn't funny either.

Historical context matters. This change was made to native civilisations because they're almost never correctly represented, as opposed to the Europeans, in literally any kind of mass media content. It has taken Native Americans centuries to break just some of the stereotypes and misrepresentations that the "anthropologists" and racial theorists of the 19th century and earlier imposed on them, and they're still not fully free of it by any means. So yeah, this change might not be a big deal but I'll take it.

Also, it boils down to who is marginalised and who isn't. Europeans aren't marginalised. Native Americans are still some of the most marginalized people on earth. Really surprised that some of the best players at a historical game can have such deep ignorance of history and its present day consequences.

Also, yeah, America is a truly fucked up place when it comes to race, but get off your French high horse. Racism is extremely prevalent in France even today. I never feel unsafe for a minute in New York because of the color of my skin, but a semester in Paris was filled with horrific incidents. Not to mention you guys went headlong into this whole colonialism bullshit back in the day.

[Garja]

I'm glad this thread could educate us all on the fucking huge racism blind spot many top European players have.

And educate us that in 2020 guys like you still don't understand the word racism.

[japanesegeneral]

I think we need to have Indian villagers able to eat cows and remove the fact that their livestock generates XP. l

That would have been ok if the devs had implmentend it that way, going backwards is obviously stupid. Portraying a culture 100% correct in an RTS game is super stupid since you would not be able to make decision, since you have to follow the historic events... Therefore there is always a tradeoff between historic accuracy and gameplay. If there are some details that are not correctly displayed, that does not mean that the presentation is racist. It is far more important to tell the general story of the civilasation. In the case of the AOE era the story that has to be told is the story of betrayal and oppression among manyother themes. However including minor details like natives not mining gold is not even close to beeing big enough to be a story worth telling.

[blackout]

Good thread

[Cometk]

I think we need to have Indian villagers able to eat cows and remove the fact that their livestock generates XP. l

That would have been ok if the devs had implmentend it that way, going backwards is obviously stupid. Portraying a culture 100% correct in an RTS game is super stupid since you would not be able to make decision, since you have to follow the historic events... Therefore there is always a tradeoff between historic accuracy and gameplay. If there are some details that are not correctly displayed, that does not mean that the presentation is racist. It is far more important to tell the general story of the civilasation. In the case of the AOE era the story that has to be told is the story of betrayal and oppression among manyother themes. However including minor details like natives not mining gold is not even close to beeing big enough to be a story worth telling.

It goes to show that you can introduce a new mechanic while also making it balanced.

[HUMMAN]

Good thread

was searching for this comment

[japanesegeneral]

I think we need to have Indian villagers able to eat cows and remove the fact that their livestock generates XP. l

That would have been ok if the devs had implmentend it that way, going backwards is obviously stupid. Portraying a culture 100% correct in an RTS game is super stupid since you would not be able to make decision, since you have to follow the historic events... Therefore there is always a tradeoff between historic accuracy and gameplay. If there are some details that are not correctly displayed, that does not mean that the presentation is racist. It is far more important to tell the general story of the civilasation. In the case of the AOE era the story that has to be told is the story of betrayal and oppression among manyother themes. However including minor details like natives not mining gold is not even close to beeing big enough to be a story worth telling.

It goes to show that you can introduce a new mechanic while also making it balanced.

I am not even against the change...

[voigt1240]

Frankly the words ''racist and racism'' gets thrown around too freely. We should not be so quick to label other people so quickly, that is dangerous. I don't reckon there are any real racists in this thread at least not towards native americans.