Aoe3 DE Gameplay Interview

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Re: Aoe3 DE Gameplay Interview

Post by Garja »

Cometk wrote:I think we need to enable Indian villagers to eat cows and remove the fact that their livestock generates XP. We must standardize them to be like European civilizations otherwise they will not be balanced at all
The xp mechanic was there from the beginning and herdables in general are not a core mechanic, but rather a secondary one. Also the xp mechanic is not necessarily OP. I would overall rate it good to very strong depending on how many herdables are available. Probably OP in team games only.
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Re: Aoe3 DE Gameplay Interview

Post by dansil92 »

comradecommissar wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:
forgrin wrote:I'm glad this thread could educate us all on the fucking huge racism blind spot many top European players have.
Haha, are you calling me a racist because I don't care if sioux and iro mine gold in game? Is this really happening or did I misunderstand? XD

Really getting so sick of this PC bullshit, man I'm so glad I don't live in NA. You guys really have issues.
Dude constantly saying 'really sick of this PC bullshit' isn't an argument. Also, while we're on it, using words like 'I raped x or y' in the context of the game isn't funny either.

Historical context matters. This change was made to native civilisations because they're almost never correctly represented, as opposed to the Europeans, in literally any kind of mass media content. It has taken Native Americans centuries to break just some of the stereotypes and misrepresentations that the "anthropologists" and racial theorists of the 19th century and earlier imposed on them, and they're still not fully free of it by any means. So yeah, this change might not be a big deal but I'll take it.

Also, it boils down to who is marginalised and who isn't. Europeans aren't marginalised. Native Americans are still some of the most marginalized people on earth. Really surprised that some of the best players at a historical game can have such deep ignorance of history and its present day consequences.

Also, yeah, America is a truly fucked up place when it comes to race, but get off your French high horse. Racism is extremely prevalent in France even today. I never feel unsafe for a minute in New York because of the color of my skin, but a semester in Paris was filled with horrific incidents. Not to mention you guys went headlong into this whole colonialism bullshit back in the day.
thank you for saying this so well. appreciate it
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Re: Aoe3 DE Gameplay Interview

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Cometk is the best
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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

European settlers shouldn't be able to mine from plantations.
They enslaved black people so that they would work in plantations for them, and this historical accuracy is offensive for the black community.
I hope DE will fix that and remove plantations from Euro civs.

If you disagree you're racist.
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Re: Aoe3 DE Gameplay Interview

Post by Sargsyan »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:European settlers shouldn't be able to mine from plantations.
They enslaved black people so that they would work in plantations for them, and this historical accuracy is offensive for the black community.
I hope DE will fix that and remove plantations from Euro civs.

If you disagree you're racist.
enslaving is racist too
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Re: Aoe3 DE Gameplay Interview

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Post by Kaiserklein »

comradecommissar wrote:Dude constantly saying 'really sick of this PC bullshit' isn't an argument. Also, while we're on it, using words like 'I raped x or y' in the context of the game isn't funny either.
I wasn't arguing, I just can't believe I really got called a racist for that shit... Do you really also think not caring about these historical inaccuracies makes me a racist? Cause if you do, you're not worth arguing with either, cause you're mixing it all up.
While we're on it, using the word "rape" should be totally fine. Every word can be offensive to someone, but we can't just stop using them. I'm not gonna let people dictate which word I can or can't use just because it might offend some person I don't even know. It's just words, and I'm not purposefully using them to hurt people. I'm sorry if it does hurt anyone, but I won't take care of the whole world's sensitivities cause it's impossible.
comradecommissar wrote:Historical context matters. This change was made to native civilisations because they're almost never correctly represented, as opposed to the Europeans, in literally any kind of mass media content. It has taken Native Americans centuries to break just some of the stereotypes and misrepresentations that the "anthropologists" and racial theorists of the 19th century and earlier imposed on them, and they're still not fully free of it by any means. So yeah, this change might not be a big deal but I'll take it.
Everything is misrepresented in this game, seriously? It's just that NA feels guilty cause their "history" is built on the massacre of natives. I really can't see how not having iro/sioux mine gold will remotely help in any case haha, this is just hypocrisy. Just like when they celebrate thanksgiving and pretend they're thankful, when in fact they massacred the guys.
comradecommissar wrote:Also, it boils down to who is marginalised and who isn't. Europeans aren't marginalised. Native Americans are still some of the most marginalized people on earth. Really surprised that some of the best players at a historical game can have such deep ignorance of history and its present day consequences.
So you're also gonna call me an ignorant now? Always the same story, can't say anything without being called a racist or an ignorant.
You think I don't know about that history? Why are you so arrogant to call me ignorant in that regard? How the fuck would you know what I know or don't know? Kindly fuck off.
comradecommissar wrote:Also, yeah, America is a truly fucked up place when it comes to race, but get off your French high horse. Racism is extremely prevalent in France even today. I never feel unsafe for a minute in New York because of the color of my skin, but a semester in Paris was filled with horrific incidents. Not to mention you guys went headlong into this whole colonialism bullshit back in the day.
You think I don't know there are racism problems in my country? Haha, what a joke. I know so many racist French people that just make me feel like I have to puke. We have to fix it just like NA does.
But how is that relevant lmao? I'm not talking about the amount of racism there is. I'm talking about the fact NA guys will call you a racist for any fucking reason, even you're as non racist as you can get (and I believe I am). They just have that tendency to ALWAYS bring race in the center of the debate. You see that's the difference, when considering a change to a civ, I'm not even remotely thinking about the race of the guys, cause it's a fucking game, so I focus on the gameplay. And then, these guys show up and start talking about race, when in fact it has nothing to do with anything. I don't give a shit about your or anyone else's skin colou. Caring about that stuff IS the actual racism.
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Re: Aoe3 DE Gameplay Interview

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Post by gamevideo113 »

Jesus christ, this thread...
[Some people aspire to be pr30+, some people aspire to have fun, and some people aspire to play 3v3 Deccan.] - vividlyplain - 2019 Who (nationality) rape ?
stupid logic. noob players can say op?
toxic, Insult, Racism ?
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Re: Aoe3 DE Gameplay Interview

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Post by Kaiserklein »

voigt1240 wrote:Frankly the words ''racist and racism'' get´s thrown around too freely. We should not be so quick to label other people so quickly, that is dangerous. I don't reckon there are any real racists in this thread at least not towards native americans.
Yeah exactly.

I'll add that people calling everyone and their mom a racist for no reason are actually helping the true racists. Cause these guys will be able to use it as an argument, they'll say "PC people pull the racist card whenever they disagree with you". Really sad to hand to actual racist people some real arguments like that.
It's the same as these feminists who claim that if you're a man you must be sexist, or whatever bullshit. These are helping the actual sexist people, cause they make feminists look like fools.
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Re: Aoe3 DE Gameplay Interview

Post by comradecommissar »

Kaiserklein wrote:
comradecommissar wrote:Dude constantly saying 'really sick of this PC bullshit' isn't an argument. Also, while we're on it, using words like 'I raped x or y' in the context of the game isn't funny either.
I wasn't arguing, I just can't believe I really got called a racist for that shit... Do you really also think not caring about these historical inaccuracies makes me a racist? Cause if you do, you're not worth arguing with either, cause you're mixing it all up.
While we're on it, using the word "rape" should be totally fine. Every word can be offensive to someone, but we can't just stop using them. I'm not gonna let people dictate which word I can or can't use just because it might offend some person I don't even know. It's just words, and I'm not purposefully using them to hurt people. I'm sorry if it does hurt anyone, but I won't take care of the whole world's sensitivities cause it's impossible.
comradecommissar wrote:Historical context matters. This change was made to native civilisations because they're almost never correctly represented, as opposed to the Europeans, in literally any kind of mass media content. It has taken Native Americans centuries to break just some of the stereotypes and misrepresentations that the "anthropologists" and racial theorists of the 19th century and earlier imposed on them, and they're still not fully free of it by any means. So yeah, this change might not be a big deal but I'll take it.
Everything is misrepresented in this game, seriously? It's just that NA feels guilty cause their "history" is built on the massacre of natives. I really can't see how not having iro/sioux mine gold will remotely help in any case haha, this is just hypocrisy. Just like when they celebrate thanksgiving and pretend they're thankful, when in fact they massacred the guys.
comradecommissar wrote:Also, it boils down to who is marginalised and who isn't. Europeans aren't marginalised. Native Americans are still some of the most marginalized people on earth. Really surprised that some of the best players at a historical game can have such deep ignorance of history and its present day consequences.
So you're also gonna call me an ignorant now? Always the same story, can't say anything without being called a racist or an ignorant.
You think I don't know about that history? Why are you so arrogant to call me ignorant in that regard? How the fuck would you know what I know or don't know? Kindly fuck off.
comradecommissar wrote:Also, yeah, America is a truly fucked up place when it comes to race, but get off your French high horse. Racism is extremely prevalent in France even today. I never feel unsafe for a minute in New York because of the color of my skin, but a semester in Paris was filled with horrific incidents. Not to mention you guys went headlong into this whole colonialism bullshit back in the day.
You think I don't know there are racism problems in my country? Haha, what a joke. I know so many racist French people that just make me feel like I have to puke. We have to fix it just like NA does.
But how is that relevant lmao? I'm not talking about the amount of racism there is. I'm talking about the fact NA guys will call you a racist for any fucking reason, even you're as non racist as you can get (and I believe I am). They just have that tendency to ALWAYS bring race in the center of the debate. You see that's the difference, when considering a change to a civ, I'm not even remotely thinking about the race of the guys, cause it's a fucking game, so I focus on the gameplay. And then, these guys show up and start talking about race, when in fact it has nothing to do with anything. I don't give a shit about your or anyone else's skin colou. Caring about that stuff IS the actual racism.


1. I can argue with you on everything else, but honestly how dare you think "I'Il rape you" is a funny thing to say to someone. It says a lot about you as a person.

2. NA feels guilty. Yes. I agree with you. My point is that you should feel guilty too. Where do you think all the splendour of Paris came from? How many natives in Africa and Asia died for it? Don't try to absolve your own history. Western Europeans everywhere were the same when it came to massacre and plunder. And lmao, you guys were there brutalising natives in North America too.

3. Im glad you know about the racism in your own country. That was entirely my fault for misunderstanding what you said. Ill concede that.
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Re: Aoe3 DE Gameplay Interview

Post by Warno »

I am pretty excited for the change, adds something new for me and I have always like the historical context of the game.

Then again if it changes the balance I can see why the top guys wouldn't like it too much.
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Re: Aoe3 DE Gameplay Interview

Post by HUMMAN »

Avaible shipments:
- America was colonized by EU anyway card
- Pakis did some massacre too card
- Macron is not cool card
- Shame on colonialism and imperialism card
- if everyone is a little racist no one is racist card
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Re: Aoe3 DE Gameplay Interview

Post by comradecommissar »

HUMMAN wrote:Avaible shipments:
- America was colonized by EU anyway card
- Pakis did some massacre too card
- Macron is not cool card
- Shame on colonialism and imperialism card
- if everyone is a little racist no one is racist card
Pakis....

This community man.
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Re: Aoe3 DE Gameplay Interview

Post by voigt1240 »

I don't think he meant in a bad way. Don't be upset
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Re: Aoe3 DE Gameplay Interview

Post by HUMMAN »

comradecommissar wrote:
HUMMAN wrote:Avaible shipments:
- America was colonized by EU anyway card
- Pakis did some massacre too card
- Macron is not cool card
- Shame on colonialism and imperialism card
- if everyone is a little racist no one is racist card
Pakis....

This community man.
we are bro countries chill.
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Post by howlingwolfpaw »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:European settlers shouldn't be able to mine from plantations.
They enslaved black people so that they would work in plantations for them, and this historical accuracy is offensive for the black community.
I hope DE will fix that and remove plantations from Euro civs.

If you disagree you're racist.


Prior to about 1619 the colonist did the work themselves, largely with the help of indentured servants. That had to work off their debt.

then 2 cases began the rise of actual slavery. (to my knowledge)

One was when 3 indentured servants tried to escape 2 were white and 1 was African. The 2 white ones punishment was to double their service for another 4 years. The African one was ruled to serve indefinitely.

Another case was a half African man, who had an indentured servant (full African). He served his term and found a job. but the master then sued somehow and won in court that ruled he could have a slave of his own race. He soon had 68 slaves and became the 3rd richest man in the colonies. It became so profitable laws eventually changed to let him sell some of his slaves to others and that was the start of it. Then the economies were so locked into the prices to make selling their tobacco and other products they had to use it.
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Re: Aoe3 DE Gameplay Interview

Post by gibson »

Kaiserklein wrote:Honestly, you NA guys always seem to jerk on useless details like that. Everyone gets offended by anything for no reason. It's really kind of sad to see
How am I getting offended lol. If it’s a bad change I’m gonna flame it too, but I’m going to wait to see.
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Re: Aoe3 DE Gameplay Interview

Post by gibson »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
gibson wrote:
Show hidden quotes
He hasnt provided a single reason or piece of evidence backing up his claim, because as we've often seen with diarouga, he's operating on a lack of critical thinking skills and emotion rather than reason.
Eh. That's what you're doing honestly xD. You're just being agressive and act as if only your opinion was correct, while you don't know that. You're the one who's lacking critical thinking frankly. If they changed if for political reasons, they would say that it's for accuracy obviously...
Yes I’m the one who lacks critical thinking skills because Iv provided a basis for my argument, while you’ve provided nothing but a guessimation at best.
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Re: Aoe3 DE Gameplay Interview

Post by HUMMAN »

France still earns 500 billion dollars from Africa with her post-colonial componies and central bank rezerves they hold in african countries. In correlation french citiziens live with 100x comfort in terms of wealth. Does being a French citizen makes you racist? @Kaiserklein @[Armag] diarouga
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Re: Aoe3 DE Gameplay Interview

Post by Kaiserklein »

gibson wrote:
Kaiserklein wrote:Honestly, you NA guys always seem to jerk on useless details like that. Everyone gets offended by anything for no reason. It's really kind of sad to see
How am I getting offended lol. If it’s a bad change I’m gonna flame it too, but I’m going to wait to see.
You're not like that. Obviously saying "you NA guys" was a generalization from me, which is stupid. It just feels like it's almost always NA people being so PC.
comradecommissar wrote:1. I can argue with you on everything else, but honestly how dare you think "I'Il rape you" is a funny thing to say to someone. It says a lot about you as a person.
Funny? I never said it is. All I'm saying is it's just a word I'm using, like I could use another. I could use "molest", "annihilate", "destroy", "fuck you up" instead, for example. Are these offensive too? Maybe to some people, idk. I'm not going to change my way of speaking because it may offend a person, like I said it's not even possible. If I care about a person in particular who is sensitive to rape matters, I'll be careful not to use the word. But I'm really not going to ban words from my language because a random person might get offended.
comradecommissar wrote:2. NA feels guilty. Yes. I agree with you. My point is that you should feel guilty too. Where do you think all the splendour of Paris came from? How many natives in Africa and Asia died for it? Don't try to absolve your own history. Western Europeans everywhere were the same when it came to massacre and plunder. And lmao, you guys were there brutalising natives in North America too.
You think I don't feel guilty? Well, I do. For instance, I'd like France to apologize about the war in Algeria.
So what now? What does this fucking have to do with anything at all?? I'm discussing gameplay and arguing an historical accuracy among so many others isn't a big deal, and not worth potentially ruining civs. You're saying I should feel guilty. What?? I don't understand the logic, if there is any.
comradecommissar wrote:3. Im glad you know about the racism in your own country. That was entirely my fault for misunderstanding what you said. Ill concede that.
Okay
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Re: Aoe3 DE Gameplay Interview

Post by bobabu »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:European settlers shouldn't be able to mine from plantations.
They enslaved black people so that they would work in plantations for them, and this historical accuracy is offensive for the black community.
I hope DE will fix that and remove plantations from Euro civs.

If you disagree you're racist.
Well I don't see problem if the people working on the plantations are black. Ofc it probably doesn't make sense for all the people working on the plantations to be black though. Slavery is generally depicted faulty in the media today. Because people don't seem to fully understand it or are blinded by the victory mentality of the nothern states. Just take the movie amistad for example. It is full of historical inaccuracies concerning slavery. It doesn't make sense for a slave owner to treat their slaves especially bad. They even vaccinated the slaves and gave them more than enough food. On the amistad they had too much food.
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Re: Aoe3 DE Gameplay Interview

Post by comradecommissar »

Kaiserklein wrote:Funny? I never said it is. All I'm saying is it's just a word I'm using, like I could use another. I could use "molest", "annihilate", "destroy", "fuck you up" instead, for example. Are these offensive too? Maybe to some people, idk. I'm not going to change my way of speaking because it may offend a person, like I said it's not even possible. If I care about a person in particular who is sensitive to rape matters, I'll be careful not to use the word. But I'm really not going to ban words from my language because a random person might get offended.


I mean, sure, I can't stop you. However, you've always come off as a smart dude and I hope you can see how using that kind of language so flippantly normalises and trivialises something that shouldn't be normalised. Its like the N word. Both words signify oppression, bodily ownership of another, abuse etc.
Kaiserklein wrote:You think I don't feel guilty? Well, I do. For instance, I'd like France to apologize about the war in Algeria.
So what now? What does this fucking have to do with anything at all?? I'm discussing gameplay and arguing an historical accuracy among so many others isn't a big deal, and not worth potentially ruining civs. You're saying I should feel guilty. What?? I don't understand the logic, if there is any.


I said what I said because you were making the argument that NA people react to everything because they feel guilty for the fact that their country is built on oppression. I was just reminding you that yours is too, and that you should perhaps channel your own guilt into a similar reaction, rather than trying to criticize everything as "PC bullshit" etc.


I have nothing against you. I love your streams and I've learned a lot as a player from you. The rape thing always bothered me a ton; perhaps I should have PMd you privately about that, but now seemed as good a time as any. I just hope you can see how accurate representation might be more important than 'balance' to some. DE developers worked with tribal consultants, who clearly said this was a change that needed to be made. People should at least have the right to ask to be represented accurately.
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Post by Challenger_Marco »

This thread is cancer.....
:nwc:
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Re: Aoe3 DE Gameplay Interview

Post by voigt1240 »

Why is one suposed to feel guilt for the decisions made by the leaders of ones country? And how far back should one go in that regard?
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Post by japanesegeneral »

voigt1240 wrote:Why is one suposed to feel guilt for the decisions made by the leaders of ones country?
Ask us germans...
6 petards a day keep the doctor away.
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Re: Aoe3 DE Gameplay Interview

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Post by voigt1240 »

I ought to feel guilty about the viking raids too

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