Aoe3 DE Gameplay Interview

[Good ol Ivan]

More like:
- fixing every historical inaccuracy in the game -> historical reasons
- fixing only minority groups inaccuracies -> political reasons

Ye exactly. There are tons of issues historical inaccuracies for European civs, and they're not fixed because MS doesn't want to change the game for historical reasons. Only fixing minority groups inaccuracies however, is much more important to them since it's political.
And to be fair, this thread has shown that political reasons are very important for American people : dansil, gibson, cometk and forgrin namely.

It just shows they are brain washed into virtue signaling, tbh
Oh hey since I'm Canadian I just happen to know about the great opression of native americans dying to evil Europeans better than you Europeans do.
Nevermind that I'm 100% white myself but hey it's very cool and rad to shit on my heritage.

[badger_prince]

It is in general detrimental to an earnest discussion to assume that people who don't share your opinion are "brainwashed", "mentally ill", etc.
It doesn't add anything but vitriol. This applies regardless what "side" you stand on in this discussion.

We, as human beings, are quick to assume that everyone would share our opinion if only they had access to all information that we have, or if only they were as intelligent as we are.
This is obviously not true.

[iNcog]

Show hidden quotes

I don't know if any of us gets a say on what happens with DE tbh.

That doesn't mean that we can't disagree and complain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining I recommend you check out the redlining article.

The issue is that people were selecting based on skin colour, using aggregate statistics to justify it. Black families were targeted because the average income of their race was lower, often regardless of their individual income status. If you can't see how that's racist, I dunno.

Ah ok, you were talking about using global race data to select people, then yes that's discrimination.
Using individual data to select someone isn't racism however.

just because ethnic statistics are illegal in France doesn't mean that racism does not exist there. it's easy to lower the bar and say we are better than the USA. which we are. but there are still some hard issues that need to be addressed even in European countries

and USA renaming military bases to be other names than Confederate ones is a GOOD thing.

Sure, it doesn't mean that we're perfect. But it's not really fair to say that Europe is lagging behind NA, and then take examples which are specific of the NA situation and banned in Europe, to prove that I'm racist ^^.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-des ... about-race

I don't know if using the census to deny you have any racial problems is really a sign of being farther ahead.

I'm not saying we have any issues, just saying we have less. And not using racial data officially is a good thing imo.

I think I agree with this. when the mandatory US census came through my neighborhood and asked what "race" I was, I was quite pissed. they dont do it to understand what communities are struggling. they do it for gerrymandering

[Good ol Ivan]

It is in general detrimental to an earnest discussion to assume that people who don't share your opinion are "brainwashed", "mentally ill", etc.
It doesn't add anything but vitriol. This applies regardless what "side" you stand on in this discussion.

We, as human beings, are quick to assume that everyone would share our opinion if only they had access to all information that we have, or if only they were as intelligent as we are.
This is obviously not true.

What you don't realize is that some people just can't be reasoned with. They are way too stubborn and self-absorbed in their bullshit, like the Paki.
It's useless to argue with some people as they just won't admit they are wrong, because their entire world view is based on false assumptions.
It's like talking about calculus with someone who is convinced that 2 + 2 = 5. Or in this case, 2 + 2 = racism and opression.

User was banned for this post.

[badger_prince]

What you realize is that some people just can't be reasoned with, they are way too stubborn and self-absorbed in their bullshit, like that one Paki.
So yeah safe to say they are stupid and/or brainwashed.

I believe your post speaks for itself.
You are doing the exact opposite of what can be expected from anyone in a rational discussion.

[iNcog]

It is in general detrimental to an earnest discussion to assume that people who don't share your opinion are "brainwashed", "mentally ill", etc.
It doesn't add anything but vitriol. This applies regardless what "side" you stand on in this discussion.

We, as human beings, are quick to assume that everyone would share our opinion if only they had access to all information that we have, or if only they were as intelligent as we are.
This is obviously not true.

What you realize is that some people just can't be reasoned with, they are way too stubborn and self-absorbed in their bullshit, like that one Paki.
So yeah safe to say they are stupid and/or brainwashed.

???????????

[Good ol Ivan]

What you realize is that some people just can't be reasoned with, they are way too stubborn and self-absorbed in their bullshit, like that one Paki.
So yeah safe to say they are stupid and/or brainwashed.

I believe your post speaks for itself.
You are doing the exact opposite of what can be expected from anyone in a rational discussion.

Lol

[comradecommissar]

What you realize is that some people just can't be reasoned with, they are way too stubborn and self-absorbed in their bullshit, like that one Paki.
So yeah safe to say they are stupid and/or brainwashed.

I believe your post speaks for itself.
You are doing the exact opposite of what can be expected from anyone in a rational discussion.

Yeah that's the point. Do not throw pearls at pigs, and save your time for something else instead.

@edeholland not to feed the troll, but @Good ol Ivan has resorted to racist slurs and other racist comments against me in this thread and in the thread you guys locked just now. Whatever the debate on the changes, I'm extremely, extremely disappointed that not only has no action been taken, but the comments have not been removed. I think many of us expect better from this community, especially as DE is on the horizon. More than one person has pointed out his racism here and more so in the other thread. Do better please!

[Riotcoke]

Show hidden quotes

What you realize is that some people just can't be reasoned with, they are way too stubborn and self-absorbed in their bullshit, like that one Paki.
So yeah safe to say they are stupid and/or brainwashed.

I believe your post speaks for itself.
You are doing the exact opposite of what can be expected from anyone in a rational discussion.

Yeah that's the point. Do not throw pearls at pigs, and save your time for something else instead.

@edeholland not to feed the troll, but @Good ol Ivan has resorted to racist slurs and other racist comments against me in this thread and in the thread you guys locked just now. Whatever the debate on the changes, I'm extremely, extremely disappointed that not only has no action been taken, but the comments have not been removed. I think many of us expect better from this community, especially as DE is on the horizon. More than one person has pointed out his racism here and more so in the other thread. Do better please!

Mark is the only mod that can do anything, and he's afk atm.

[Good ol Ivan]

Show hidden quotes

What you realize is that some people just can't be reasoned with, they are way too stubborn and self-absorbed in their bullshit, like that one Paki.
So yeah safe to say they are stupid and/or brainwashed.

I believe your post speaks for itself.
You are doing the exact opposite of what can be expected from anyone in a rational discussion.

Yeah that's the point. Do not throw pearls at pigs, and save your time for something else instead.

@edeholland not to feed the troll, but @Good ol Ivan has resorted to racist slurs and other racist comments against me in this thread and in the thread you guys locked just now. Whatever the debate on the changes, I'm extremely, extremely disappointed that not only has no action been taken, but the comments have not been removed. I think many of us expect better from this community, especially as DE is on the horizon. More than one person has pointed out his racism here and more so in the other thread. Do better please!

I told you to consider leaving your country if you feel so missunderstood, threatened, etc... Specially because your posts heavily implied you dislike everyone around you and you have been, supposedly, treated badly. Which can be interpreted as a genuine concern and advice. The tone might suggest otherwise, sure, but that's because you were acting very smug yourself in your past posts, suggesting that anyone who disagreed with you or your opinions is ignorant. Still not a personal attack tho.

Then you proceeded to tell me how your PhD in *unspecified* is proof of how you have achieved more than I ever did and ever will.
There's no way you can possibly say that wasn't personal.
Not that it offends me, but if you treat others around as you please and show no respect, don't expect others will treat you kindly.
Now, if I recall correctly, you said you'd leave this place because I hurt your feelings. Yet here you are. Replying to me.

Which leads me to think you are either masochistic or a liar desperate for attention, you need to convince everyone you are the victim and being treated badly, nevermind you don't seem to have a problem mocking other people.

Grow up, man up. Admit you were (are) acting like a child, and I will readily admit and apologize for being a racist cunt.

User was banned for this post.

[deleted_user]

Sheesh

[voigt1240]

Monday

[iNcog]

lol no. you are entirely in the wrong and Comrade is not in the slightest

I also express my disappointment at lack of moderation action

[Papist]

All this because the devs decided to change how two civs gather gold in a 15 year old video game? Sheesh.

Personally, I think the change (unless it's purely aesthetic as some have claimed) is unnecessary and may negatively impact game balance. But I'm going to withhold judgement until I see how it works in practice because that's what intelligent people do. And to all those trying to turn this into some sort of political issue: get a fucking life.

[[Armag] diarouga]

lol no. you are entirely in the wrong and Comrade is not in the slightest

I also express my disappointment at lack of moderation action

They locked the thread. What else can they do ? They could have locked the thread earlier but I don't think that banning people would have been right.

[gibson]

Well ivan deserved to get banned for this post

But you are a Paki. If you don't like being a Paki why would you use a Paki flag and get offended when others call you a Paki?
If I was so insecure about being a Paki I wouldn't brag about it.
Go get help, for your own good.

There was some other borderline stuff he said as well but heres hes making a conceited effort to be antagonistic and racist.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Well ivan deserved to get banned for this post

But you are a Paki. If you don't like being a Paki why would you use a Paki flag and get offended when others call you a Paki?
If I was so insecure about being a Paki I wouldn't brag about it.
Go get help, for your own good.

There was some other borderline stuff he said as well but heres hes making a conceited effort to be antagonistic and racist.

The mods will decide I guess. I don't know exactly how offensive "Paki" is, but unless it's very offensive it's not enough to deserve a ban imo.

[gibson]

Well ivan deserved to get banned for this post

But you are a Paki. If you don't like being a Paki why would you use a Paki flag and get offended when others call you a Paki?
If I was so insecure about being a Paki I wouldn't brag about it.
Go get help, for your own good.

There was some other borderline stuff he said as well but heres hes making a conceited effort to be antagonistic and racist.

The mods will decide I guess. I don't know exactly how offensive "Paki" is, but unless it's very offensive it's not enough to deserve a ban imo.

How offensive it is isnt really the point. The point is he was made aware that it was an offensive term and what did he do? He used it as many times as he possibly could in an intentionally antagonistic way. Thats not the way a normal human being who's used to interacting with others behaves. He showed that he had nothing productive to offer and that his only reason for being here was to be antagonistic. There's no place for that in a community.

[thomasgreen6]

Show hidden quotes

Well ivan deserved to get banned for this post

But you are a Paki. If you don't like being a Paki why would you use a Paki flag and get offended when others call you a Paki?
If I was so insecure about being a Paki I wouldn't brag about it.
Go get help, for your own good.

There was some other borderline stuff he said as well but heres hes making a conceited effort to be antagonistic and racist.

The mods will decide I guess. I don't know exactly how offensive "Paki" is, but unless it's very offensive it's not enough to deserve a ban imo.

How offensive it is isnt really the point. The point is he was made aware that it was an offensive term and what did he do? He used it as many times as he possibly could in an intentionally antagonistic way. Thats not the way a normal human being who's used to interacting with others behaves. He showed that he had nothing productive to offer and that his only reason for being here was to be antagonistic. There's no place for that in a community.

Also it's just not necessary. You can make your point without resorting to slurs or dehumanising someone for something they can't control.

[caleb15]

A guy with the name "comrade commissar" complaining about dehumanizing language... I would say it's ironic but it's not.

[Good ol Ivan]

Well ivan deserved to get banned for this post

But you are a Paki. If you don't like being a Paki why would you use a Paki flag and get offended when others call you a Paki?
If I was so insecure about being a Paki I wouldn't brag about it.
Go get help, for your own good.

There was some other borderline stuff he said as well but heres hes making a conceited effort to be antagonistic and racist.

Ah yes, because he wasn't being antagonistic at all. Nope. Just a very nice guy telling others how they are dumb and how he happens to be very smart. And upon confrontation he made really positive and veery constructive remarks as well. I wouldn't have pushed it so far if he actually bothered giving a serious reply and addressed the argument. He did not, and instead said I was stupid because he supposedly was intending to work on his PhD or whatever.

Okay, I can acknowledge that I might have crossed the line, but if you honestly think he did nothing wrong and do fall for his victim card, then you are really damn fucking stupid. That's the point I was trying to make.

And oh yeah, there's something else I want to talk about. Calling Paki a Paki being offensive is so stupid I don't even know where to begin with.
Sure if he was Indian and I called him Paki then I would understand the reaction.
If he was uncomfortable with his nationality because he identifies more as an American (because he does live in America), I would also get it. But if he identifies as someone from Pakistan and doesn't seem to have a problem with who he is, what he is, and where he comes from, then why is it so offensive?
The word doesn't imply something negative per se (unlike other slurs, like Beaner) neither, it literally just means person from Pakistan.
But if you think the word Paki is necessarily such a negative and racist slur, then you are the one who gives it a negative and offensive meaning. Again, it literally just means "Pakistani". It's a spook.
And I didn't even use it in a truly offensive context. I asked why he felt uncomfortable with it, he didn't answer and then insisted that I should get banned. Sure as hell I was being antagonistic, but I wasn't calling him names 'just' for the sake of it. Really nice guy, nothing toxic at all.

[Cometk]

yeah dude i mean with just a very cursory google search you can find the proper demonym to refer to a person from pakistan. you were linked an entire encyclopedia article detailing how the term "paki" is used as a slur, and you still claim ignorance? LOL

[Good ol Ivan]

yeah dude i mean with just a very cursory google search you can find the proper demonym to refer to a person from pakistan. you were linked an entire encyclopedia article detailing how the term "paki" is used as a slur, and you still claim ignorance? LOL

[gibson]

Well ivan deserved to get banned for this post

But you are a Paki. If you don't like being a Paki why would you use a Paki flag and get offended when others call you a Paki?
If I was so insecure about being a Paki I wouldn't brag about it.
Go get help, for your own good.

There was some other borderline stuff he said as well but heres hes making a conceited effort to be antagonistic and racist.

Ah yes, because he wasn't being antagonistic at all. Nope. Just a very nice guy telling others how they are dumb and how he happens to be very smart. And upon confrontation he made really positive and veery constructive remarks as well. I wouldn't have pushed it so far if he actually bothered giving a serious reply and addressed the argument. He did not, and instead said I was stupid because he supposedly was intending to work on his PhD or whatever.

Okay, I can acknowledge that I might have crossed the line, but if you honestly think he did nothing wrong and do fall for his victim card, then you are really damn fucking stupid. That's the point I was trying to make.

And oh yeah, there's something else I want to talk about. Calling Paki a Paki being offensive is so stupid I don't even know where to begin with.
Sure if he was Indian and I called him Paki then I would understand the reaction.
If he was uncomfortable with his nationality because he identifies more as an American (because he does live in America), I would also get it. But if he identifies as someone from Pakistan and doesn't seem to have a problem with who he is, what he is, and where he comes from, then why is it so offensive?
The word doesn't imply something negative per se (unlike other slurs, like Beaner) neither, it literally just means person from Pakistan.
But if you think the word Paki is necessarily such a negative and racist slur, then you are the one who gives it a negative and offensive meaning. Again, it literally just means "Pakistani". It's a spook.
And I didn't even use it in a truly offensive context. I asked why he felt uncomfortable with it, he didn't answer and then insisted that I should get banned. Sure as hell I was being antagonistic, but I wasn't calling him names 'just' for the sake of it. Really nice guy, nothing toxic at all.

Nowhere did I say he did nothing wrong, so stop fucking strawmanning me, but at the very beginning he at least made an effort to explain where he was coming from, only to be mocked and antagonized by you. You just behaved in literally the shitiest way iv ever seen anyone behave on this forum. You're the first person in the history of me being on aoe3 forums(10+ years) who I've thought deserved to be banned, so kudos to you. If I didn't know for a fact that you weren't 16 I would of swore you were, cause even on the internet it's rare to see adults act so childish.

[helln00]

Show hidden quotes

I don't know if any of us gets a say on what happens with DE tbh.

That doesn't mean that we can't disagree and complain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining I recommend you check out the redlining article.

The issue is that people were selecting based on skin colour, using aggregate statistics to justify it. Black families were targeted because the average income of their race was lower, often regardless of their individual income status. If you can't see how that's racist, I dunno.

Ah ok, you were talking about using global race data to select people, then yes that's discrimination.
Using individual data to select someone isn't racism however.

just because ethnic statistics are illegal in France doesn't mean that racism does not exist there. it's easy to lower the bar and say we are better than the USA. which we are. but there are still some hard issues that need to be addressed even in European countries

and USA renaming military bases to be other names than Confederate ones is a GOOD thing.

Sure, it doesn't mean that we're perfect. But it's not really fair to say that Europe is lagging behind NA, and then take examples which are specific of the NA situation and banned in Europe, to prove that I'm racist ^^.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-des ... about-race

I don't know if using the census to deny you have any racial problems is really a sign of being farther ahead.

I'm not saying we have any issues, just saying we have less. And not using racial data officially is a good thing imo.

I think I agree with this. when the mandatory US census came through my neighborhood and asked what "race" I was, I was quite pissed. they dont do it to understand what communities are struggling. they do it for gerrymandering

I just want to push back on this a little bit cause without those kinds of data that is differentiated, its often very easy to brush off problems and make it hidden and even more ignored. Data and stats can be and are often abused, but without them you will have lesser or even no basis for change. Like the census data was used for gerrymandering but it was also what was used to prove that they were discriminating through gerrymandering and led to court decisions that prevented that shit.