Elifant in the room: the role and future of ESOC Patch on DE

[iNcog]

Well here goes. I personally believe I know what the future holds for ESOC Patch in the context of DE. My question is sort of an open one as to how everyone else feels about EP per the platform that will be DE.

There are big design changes that have taken place for existing civs, as well as two new civs. On top of that, a developer will be actively supporting the game through their own updates.

Suppose now is as good a time as any to openly and pubically discuss this one.

[harcha]

We can bully everyone in the official AOE forums that aren't one of "us", and claim we have the superior knowledge in every balance issue. Other than that not much.

[iNcog]

I specifically left out my own views from OP to avoid bias. The way I see it is that EP either doesn't exist anymore or is relegated to ESOC maps only version of it (e.g. laddering with our maps). Which becomes irrelevant if DE uses EP maps anyway.

Furthermore I would like to say that I am not a part of the AOE3 DE playtest team (thus not under NDA) nor am I a part of ESOC's internal discussions on the matter.

[harcha]

I mean we could keep this forum alive, gotto host those conversations about racists with racists somewhere on the web right?

[Papist]

A lot will depend on the changes that are made in the official patch, but I'd be surprised if even half of the changes made on EP are carried over. I think there will likely be room for an EP, though it might mean starting from scratch (not sure how the ESOC Dev Team would feel about that).

This of course leads into a larger discussion about what ESOC as a whole will/should look like going forward. Is this site going to actively compete with Microsoft for visitors and viewers or enter into a more collaborative relationship (co-sponsoring tourneys and such)? Is it going to make a play for AoE4 players when that game is released or hang up the gloves once interest in AoE3 fizzles out? Considering new players will likely not understand the "Ensemble Studios" reference, is a rebrand in order? These are all important questions that, imo, should be answered sooner rather than later.

[harcha]

Please present your business plan for the next 5-10 years on Friday @Mr_Bramboy

[Mr_Bramboy]

Nothing I can Discuss at the moment, i'm Afraid.

[Cometk]

with the game receiving official support, hopefully there won’t be a need for a fan patch to do the balancing for the game. What I can foresee, however, is the infrastructure of the EP team (read: the high level players) continuing to have focused balance discussions and perhaps creating iterative lists of changes to be publicly passed to Microsoft officials for consideration in balance updates.

[Papist]

with the game receiving official support, hopefully there won’t be a need for a fan patch to do the balancing for the game. What I can foresee, however, is the infrastructure of the EP team (read: the high level players) continuing to have focused balance discussions and perhaps creating iterative lists of changes to be publicly passed to Microsoft officials for consideration in balance updates.

How long will it receive official support though? Considering that the definitive editions are designed more to build hype for AoE4 than to stand on their own, I'd be surprised if Microsoft actively supports AoE3DE for more than 1-2 years.

[harcha]

with the game receiving official support, hopefully there won’t be a need for a fan patch to do the balancing for the game. What I can foresee, however, is the infrastructure of the EP team (read: the high level players) continuing to have focused balance discussions and perhaps creating iterative lists of changes to be publicly passed to Microsoft officials for consideration in balance updates.

How long will it receive official support though? Considering that the definitive editions are designed more to build hype for AoE4 than to stand on their own, I'd be surprised if Microsoft actively supports AoE3DE for more than 1-2 years.

That is why we need mod support to enable existence of Age of Empires III: Definitive Edition: Ensemble Studios Online Community Patch when it comes to it.

[harcha]

Nothing I can Discuss at the moment, i'm Afraid.

How do you expect to keep the investors (i.e. meme makers, drama producers and salt miners) interested then?

[Mr_Bramboy]

Nothing I can Discuss at the moment, i'm Afraid.

How do you expect to keep the investors (i.e. meme makers, drama producers and salt miners) interested then?

I am unsure whether or not the mentioned groups collectively possess a single penny.

[bobabu]

I don't like the EP meta. EP made the game more predictable and slower-paced. It is only adhering to higher players while forgetting about the base. On top of that, the team game balance is horrific. Upsets tend to happen less and only people that play the game a lot stand a chance because of the constant balance changes. Almost every game now goes to the fortress, and mostly boom civs do well in colonial. The only thing that is great about the ep is the anti-cheat system. I never liked the maps much. They are just too standard and boring. Only Rikki made some interesting maps. So I'll be happy if they don't take too much from the EP. It's a patch made for the pros and not for the base. I would suggest stopping the development of the EP because it's only splitting the player base further.

[Snow Lynx]

I think that if there are any MAJOR balancing issues they’ll simply fix it with one of the regular updates. AOE2 DE updates fairly regularly, even with small things like bug fixes and the home page appearance (changes with the seasons). So it’d be fairly simple for them to do. Not sure they will however, and I personally don’t think it’s a bad thing.

I agree with the comments that it’s the “pro” players that care more about the balance, the rest just want to enjoy the game. Although I do also appreciate the fact that they have anti-cheat measures in place etc, and it’s nice that they can make a patch that enhances their personal experience of it.

But the majority of people when AOE3 DE comes out won’t care if a unit has 5.5 speed rather than 5, or costs 35 gold instead of 40. They’ll just play the game to enjoy it, which is kinda the way it should be tbh.

[forgrin]

EP will be dead Oct 15 2020. Maybe if DE didn't launch with additional content, just graphics and balance tweaks like we thought after the first round of Beta, there would have been a chance for some EP staying power, but with so much new content in DE I think that's it for EP. The player population will move to DE, no question about that, and that leaves no room for tournaments on EP even if the balance is better.

As for whether a fanpatch comes back for DE, I think that's possible in the long run (3+ years) but it's entirely possible most of us will be playing AoE4 by then.

I'd like to think ESOC will stick around, primarily because the official AoE forums are kinda garbage.

[[Armag] diarouga]

I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft implements the best ESOC changes honestly, I hope they will, but ye that will probably be the end of the ESOC Patch (unless DE is shit). I think ESOC will still be a big forum, because I don't expect the current community to leave ESOC, and new players will have to join ESOC for tournaments or to be part of the community and discuss with the experienced players.
I'm not active on the official forum and I don't know how successful it is, but I'd be very surprised if it becomes more active than ESOC.

[chris1089]

Isn't it safe to assume that when microsoft finish supporting DE there will still be glaring balance issues? Then could we support a fan patch for DE?

[Cometk]

hopefully it doesn't come to that, but of course, as long as there are still enough aoe3 players around interested in playing it competitively, there will be a will to play it in its best form

[forgrin]

IMO any DE fanpatch would have to be quite far down the road if at all. Even if DE isn't good, releasing a DE fanpatch would just split the community even more (RE holdouts, DE, DE fanpatch).

[[Armag] diarouga]

Isn't it safe to assume that when microsoft finish supporting DE there will still be glaring balance issues? Then could we support a fan patch for DE?

Ye, if balance is shit top players will definitely stay on EP.

[chris1089]

IMO any DE fanpatch would have to be quite far down the road if at all. Even if DE isn't good, releasing a DE fanpatch would just split the community even more (RE holdouts, DE, DE fanpatch).

What's the alternative though? Put up with rubbish balance playing match ups between the 2-3 op civs for 3 years?

[forgrin]

Isn't it safe to assume that when microsoft finish supporting DE there will still be glaring balance issues? Then could we support a fan patch for DE?

Ye, if balance is shit top players will definitely stay on EP.

I really doubt that. Viewership will be on DE, which is what funds tourney prizes, plus Microsoft definitely won't put money into EP tourneys after DE is released. You'll either have to play on DE if you want a shot at prize pool, or play on EP for no viewers and no money.

[Cometk]

aoe3:de should be receiving support, just the same as aoe2:de is currently receiving. that will include balance updates, which will be based on community feedback

[[Armag] diarouga]

Isn't it safe to assume that when microsoft finish supporting DE there will still be glaring balance issues? Then could we support a fan patch for DE?

Ye, if balance is shit top players will definitely stay on EP.

I really doubt that. Viewership will be on DE, which is what funds tourney prizes, plus Microsoft definitely won't put money into EP tourneys after DE is released. You'll either have to play on DE if you want a shot at prize pool, or play on EP for no viewers and no money.

1. Why would viewership be on DE ? They won't really make the difference between EP (or DE patch) and DE.
2. MS won't put money into EP tourneys, that's for sure, but ESOC has been hosting tourneys for 5 years without MS.

Anyway, that's just speculation. We don't know how the balance will be on DE, but if it's trash (RE level), I have no doubt top players will stay on the EP (or go to a DE patch).

[chris1089]

aoe3:de should be receiving support, just the same as aoe2:de is currently receiving. that will include balance updates, which will be based on community feedback

I wasn't around when they did balance on the original game. But why would it necessarily get to a better point than then?