Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

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Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by fightinfrenchman »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:
fightinfrenchman wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:I just want to call Iro Iro that's it tbh.
1.) You can call them whatever you want

2.) Any opinion you have on any other changes are made irrelevant by this comment
Wtf?
1) That's my point of view. Just because you're American and you disagree doesn't make it a dumb statement.

2) Even if it was a dumb statement, why would it affect my other opinions? That's some solid ad personam sophism here. I could quote some of your posts and claim that it makes any of your opinion irrelevant.
Not sure what you're saying with 1.) there. I said you can call it what you want, nobody is stopping you

2.) is also my point of view; I don't consider your criticisms of other changes to be made in good faith because of you say "I just want to call Iro Iro."
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Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

I want to call Iro Iro in good faith.
And tbh these new changes prove the points I made in the previous threads, so not sure why you're trying to silence me now.
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Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

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Post by fightinfrenchman »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:I want to call Iro Iro in good faith.
And tbh these new changes prove the points I made in the previous threads, so not sure why you're trying to silence me now.
Oh my god, get over yourself. Nobody is "silencing" you. I'm just saying you have dumb and bad opinions
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Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

And I think that you have dumb opinions as well, so there's no point discussing it more I guess.
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Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by Scroogie »

Idk about Lakota, but the people we call Iroquois called themselves Haudenoshone. Makes sense to change the name, same as it would make sense to change the name to France if it was "les baguettiers" in the original game.
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Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

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I don't know, I still get a kick out of it
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Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by Kanoo »

Riotcoke wrote:
rsy wrote:Don't think India was called India before the Greeks arrived there. Should rename to Bharat.
India was never unified until 1947 so we need to delete the civ as the mechanics make no sense. Or just call it the British Raj, which would make sense.
That’s not true actually. India was under under The Mauryan Empire way back since 6th century BC and has passed hands since to The Kanishka Empire, Gupta Empire and lastly The Mughals. Most if not all of India that you see today, and most of Pakistan and maybe Bangladesh(not sure) has always been a major part of what constitutes today’s India.

People often confuse the terms country, nation and a state. Country is a geographical term.

Was India a country as defined by a geography? Yes. Greeks and Persians and Arabs and Europeans used it for thousands of years.

India is also a nation as defined by common cultural norms and behaviors. Outsiders recognized common patterns & thus called the people of the nation Hindus or even Bharat.

So I’d say we were pretty unified since much before the British ever got here. :)
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Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

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Post by Mitoe »

I'm in complete agreement with the name changes. I think they make perfect sense.

These are peoples that have been misrepresented in stories, media, and games basically from the moment they came into contact with Europeans. Their cultures have undergone many attempts at cultural genocide and assimilation--or even actual genocide--and discrimination remains a huge issue for Native Americans to this day. So I think that changing the names is a good way to give a nod to these cultures in a positive way without undermining gameplay.
WORLD’S EDGE: Based on the feedback we got from you and other consultants, we changed the Fire Pit to the Community Plaza (a building where Villagers work together to create benefits for your civilization) and went through the same beta process to balance this.
I'm fine with this as well. The firepit was understandably very offensive, and this seems like a more appropriate way to implement the same mechanic into the game.


The removal of Nature Friendship is understandable for the same reasons as the firepit, though I am a bit sad about this one when it comes to gameplay. Conversion was one of the more fun mechanics with these civs and even in the entire game, and I think removing it has pretty huge implications for early game balance as well. Less army military strength and less scouting ability being the major downsides here. I guess we'll have to wait and see what they replaced it with. I can live with this one, I think. The first 3-4 minutes of the game are not really that important and should be balance-able over time.


The mining change does worry me though. While I understand the reasoning for the change, I feel that there is probably no good alternative to mining for gameplay. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
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Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by badger_prince »

Scroogie wrote:Idk about Lakota, but the people we call Iroquois called themselves Haudenoshone. Makes sense to change the name, same as it would make sense to change the name to France if it was "les baguettiers" in the original game.
Sioux is an abbreviation of Nadouessioux. A derogative name given to the Lakota/Dakota by enemy tribes. It means "little snakes".
So it's a good change, too.

Edit: having read the interview now: the info above is already given in the article :D
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Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by aaryngend »

rsy wrote:This honestly has me even more excited for the DE. Lots of fresh stuff incoming. Wondering how Houdinisauna is going to compare to RE iro
That sounds like a thermal spring founded by the magician Houdini :!:
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Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by Garja »

Astaroth wrote:Honestly makes no bloody sense.

Who calls Germany Deutschland (or Preussen) or Spain Espana in an English game version?
It's Germans and Spanish civs respectively, tho.
Game doesn't refer as Nations but as civilizations.
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Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by Garja »

Cometk wrote:probably gonna call them "hauds" or "hads" for short
or iro
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Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

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Post by Garja »

voigt1240 wrote:Surely if they really wanted to appease the pc culture. They would have implemented an african civilisation with Black skin color to diversify the game. I'm still sour we have no Mali in game.
Who knows they won't add new civs later. I'm still waiting for Italian civ with pizza crates of food.
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Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

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Post by duckzilla »

Garja wrote:
voigt1240 wrote:Surely if they really wanted to appease the pc culture. They would have implemented an african civilisation with Black skin color to diversify the game. I'm still sour we have no Mali in game.
Who knows they won't add new civs later. I'm still waiting for Italian civ with pizza crates of food.
pineapple pizza of course
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Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by voigt1240 »

duckzilla wrote:
Garja wrote:
voigt1240 wrote:Surely if they really wanted to appease the pc culture. They would have implemented an african civilisation with Black skin color to diversify the game. I'm still sour we have no Mali in game.
Who knows they won't add new civs later. I'm still waiting for Italian civ with pizza crates of food.
pineapple pizza of course
My estimation of you as a man just fucking plummeted with that comment.
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Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

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Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

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Post by Garja »

duckzilla wrote:
Garja wrote:
voigt1240 wrote:Surely if they really wanted to appease the pc culture. They would have implemented an african civilisation with Black skin color to diversify the game. I'm still sour we have no Mali in game.
Who knows they won't add new civs later. I'm still waiting for Italian civ with pizza crates of food.
pineapple pizza of course
You know what, I was thinking exactly about it and how serious of a misrepresentation that would be. Probably worth a complete remake on its own.
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Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by duckzilla »

Let's be honest: I would love seeing crates of Schnitzels and Rostbratwursts for Germany. Or every second one being a beer barrel.
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Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by Warno »

Where I am from it is pretty well known that Iroquois was what the French settlers called them.
To most it is pretty bad, the younger crowd don't seem to care that much.
Haudenosaunee is not hard to pronounce, just take 30 seconds and apply yourself to learn it... it really isn't that difficult.

Ho-Din-A-Show-Nee

They mention that Sioux means 'little snakes' (which I didn't know), but fail to mention that Iroquois was a french translation of a rival tribe's name for the Haudenosaunee meaning something along the lines of 'black snakes' or something similar.
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Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by gibson »

duckzilla wrote:
Garja wrote:
voigt1240 wrote:Surely if they really wanted to appease the pc culture. They would have implemented an african civilisation with Black skin color to diversify the game. I'm still sour we have no Mali in game.
Who knows they won't add new civs later. I'm still waiting for Italian civ with pizza crates of food.
pineapple pizza of course
Thinking about ordering some right now tbh ngl. Pineapple belongs on pizza.
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Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by RuinousEdge »

gibson wrote:
duckzilla wrote:
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pineapple pizza of course
Thinking about ordering some right now tbh ngl. Pineapple belongs on pizza.
Duck and Gibson deserve perma-bans from all future tourneys for thinking pineapple belongs anywhere near a pizza base.
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Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by fightinfrenchman »

RuinousEdge wrote:
gibson wrote:
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Thinking about ordering some right now tbh ngl. Pineapple belongs on pizza.
Duck and Gibson deserve perma-bans from all future tourneys for thinking pineapple belongs anywhere near a pizza base.
It's not the best topping but it can certainly work
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Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

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Post by Garja »

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Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by XeeleeFlower »

I can't imagine pineapple being all that great on a legit Italian style pizza. That being said, a Hawaiian American style pizza is absolutely delicious.
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Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

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