Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

General forum about Age of Empires 3 DE. Please post strategy threads, recorded games, user-created content and tech support threads in their respective forum.
France Le Hussard sur le toit
Howdah
Posts: 1149
Joined: Oct 16, 2019
ESO: LeHussardsurletoit

Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by Le Hussard sur le toit »

If I saw correctly you can auto put your units in formation in production line ?
ESOC : came for the game, stayed for the drama.
User avatar
Holy See Imperial Noob
Lancer
Posts: 958
Joined: Feb 29, 2016
Location: Well hello DEre

Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by Imperial Noob »


Inca have archers with poison damage over time - finally! I missed this mechanic. I hope Tupi also do, and maybe give it to archers in general.
houses hold 12 pop for 120w, and produce 0.5 food trickle each
Inca priestesses appear to be able to convert enemy units, AoE2 style... cool. The cowbell sound though :hehe:
User avatar
Denmark voigt1240
Lancer
Posts: 718
Joined: Jun 20, 2020
ESO: voigt

Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by voigt1240 »

Wololo confirmed?
User avatar
Germany Rohbrot
Howdah
ECL Reigning Champs
Posts: 1789
Joined: Feb 23, 2020
ESO: Rohbrot

Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by Rohbrot »

Lol, they just made a new game.
Spain pain train is real
Germany blasdg
Dragoon
Posts: 256
Joined: Mar 24, 2015

Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by blasdg »

One really major problem for Inca is the absence of convertable units on a lot of the maps. Since you cant convert animals anymore but only humans and a lot of the maps have no human treasure guardians or only very few of them, Inca cant creep. Like they literally cant do anything in Age1 except risking to lose the warchief. The ranged ability is neat but too weak in age 1.

The unit conversion is pretty crazy though, 360 HP, no direct counter unit and the conversion takes like 5-6 seconds. But when I converted a fully upgraded Imperial Hakkapelit it got downgraded to colonial stats - dunno whether intended or not :D
User avatar
France [Armag] diarouga
Ninja
NWC LAN Gold
Posts: 12710
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: diarouga
Location: France

Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Ye, sad.
User avatar
United States of America Squamiger
Howdah
Posts: 1756
Joined: Dec 25, 2018
ESO: Squamiger

Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by Squamiger »

Oh wow so native warchief gets a melee crackshot + convert humans. Seems pretty strong. I wonder if that will need to be nerfed a bit, since it means you can take a treasure like the 90w with two outlaw riflemen without losing hardly any HP.

I like the other changes. Nothing about the fur trade market seems to change the gameplay by very much-- if it can only be built on coin mines, and it decreases the coin mine until it's out of coin, then the mechanic is basically the same.

let's see, how could we historically justify that though. Maybe the idea that fur trading would have happened in economically important places, like by a rich seam of silver? lol
France Le Hussard sur le toit
Howdah
Posts: 1149
Joined: Oct 16, 2019
ESO: LeHussardsurletoit

Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by Le Hussard sur le toit »

Squamiger wrote:

let's see, how could we historically justify that though. Maybe the idea that fur trading would have happened in economically important places, like by a rich seam of silver? lol
Native American were attracted to glittering metal so they used to gather next to seam of gold/silver but they were too dumb to actually extract it ?
[\mode troll off, please don't kill me].
ESOC : came for the game, stayed for the drama.
User avatar
United States of America Squamiger
Howdah
Posts: 1756
Joined: Dec 25, 2018
ESO: Squamiger

Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by Squamiger »

one thing I think is weird is how all the alarm bell sounds have been replaced with the squeak of a clown car horn
User avatar
Holy See Imperial Noob
Lancer
Posts: 958
Joined: Feb 29, 2016
Location: Well hello DEre

Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

  • Quote

Post by Imperial Noob »

Squamiger wrote:one thing I think is weird is how all the alarm bell sounds have been replaced with the squeak of a clown car horn
this will drive some people nuts
User avatar
Netherlands Mr_Bramboy
Retired Contributor
Donator 01
Posts: 8219
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
ESO: [VOC] Bram
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

  • Quote

Post by Mr_Bramboy »

Imperial Noob wrote:Marketplace seems to work like a coin mine. The player starts with a free one, then has to build next ones for 25w each in a direct proximity to coin mines, and gather from the marketplaces like other civs would from the mines themselves. What is weird, is that when sioux gather from marketplaces, the amount of coin left on the mines decreases. Huh.
This is the dumbest change. I'm all in favor of changing certain potentially offensive elements of the game (please let's not discuss this again :D) - but the change has to be done right. Building a building next to a mine to mine from and deplete the mine .. it's a dumb change. It also has huge repercussions for balance. Random musk/sepoy or even opri raids can siege your marketplaces on the map. Your front mine is practically inaccessible in a rush situation, thankfully Lakota and Hauds don't need much coin early colonial (commerce age?).

I would have preferred any other change. Even a system similar to how banks function (a fur trading station?) would have been better than this.
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

  • Quote

Post by Kaiserklein »

Yeah the game is definitely more historical now that iro and sioux drop a building that depletes coin mines automatically... Morons
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
Vietnam duckzilla
Jaeger
Posts: 2497
Joined: Jun 26, 2016

Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by duckzilla »

Let's see it as a new mechanic that brings diversity into gameplay. Similar to what Warcraft III did with different types of mining.
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.

Beati pauperes spiritu.
France Le Hussard sur le toit
Howdah
Posts: 1149
Joined: Oct 16, 2019
ESO: LeHussardsurletoit

Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by Le Hussard sur le toit »

Lakota and Haus invented industrial automated mining in the 1500's. You racist just don't know nothing about history, please educate yourselves.
ESOC : came for the game, stayed for the drama.
User avatar
Denmark voigt1240
Lancer
Posts: 718
Joined: Jun 20, 2020
ESO: voigt

Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by voigt1240 »

There is Going to be a shitstorm on release
User avatar
Canada forgrin
Howdah
Posts: 1873
Joined: Apr 27, 2015
ESO: Forgrin

Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by forgrin »

Mr_Bramboy wrote:
Imperial Noob wrote:Marketplace seems to work like a coin mine. The player starts with a free one, then has to build next ones for 25w each in a direct proximity to coin mines, and gather from the marketplaces like other civs would from the mines themselves. What is weird, is that when sioux gather from marketplaces, the amount of coin left on the mines decreases. Huh.
This is the dumbest change. I'm all in favor of changing certain potentially offensive elements of the game (please let's not discuss this again :D) - but the change has to be done right. Building a building next to a mine to mine from and deplete the mine .. it's a dumb change. It also has huge repercussions for balance. Random musk/sepoy or even opri raids can siege your marketplaces on the map. Your front mine is practically inaccessible in a rush situation, thankfully Lakota and Hauds don't need much coin early colonial (commerce age?).

I would have preferred any other change. Even a system similar to how banks function (a fur trading station?) would have been better than this.
I totally agree and I said as much on the official forums. There are many interesting new mechanics you could add that allow the civs to still get coin, but the way they implemented it was low-effort, lazy, and downright stupid.
https://www.twitch.tv/forgin14

"WTF WHERE ARE MY 10 FALCS" - AraGun_OP
User avatar
Malaysia Aizamk
Pro Player
ESOC WarChiefs Classic 2017
Posts: 1459
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
Location: ded

Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by Aizamk »

Interested to hear what alternative suggestions to the coin mining mechanic in the videos users on ESOC might have. For these two nat civs, surely any method of retrieving coin that has zero interaction with mines on the map would have negative effects on balance?
oranges.
No Flag Astaroth
Howdah
Posts: 1037
Joined: Jul 21, 2019

Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by Astaroth »

It is ironic that some people claim the coin mining changes are based on the strive for historical accuracy, when the new mechanic is even LESS historically accurate than the old one. It is more realistic that Natives would start mining gold/silver in an alternate reality (such as one in which their military can compete with western cannons etc. - which is similarly unrealistic) than them having a weird building next to a gold mine which "coincidentally" depletes said mine.

This just shows perfectly how this change is clearly politically motivated and lacks any basis in history.
User avatar
Germany japanesegeneral
Lancer
Posts: 644
Joined: Mar 4, 2015
ESO: JapaneseGeneral
Location: Germany

Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by japanesegeneral »

Aizamk wrote:Interested to hear what alternative suggestions to the coin mining mechanic in the videos users on ESOC might have. For these two nat civs, surely any method of retrieving coin that has zero interaction with mines on the map would have negative effects on balance?
You could replace those mines (only for these civs) with salt. So the natives would gather salt instead of gold.
6 petards a day keep the doctor away.
France Le Hussard sur le toit
Howdah
Posts: 1149
Joined: Oct 16, 2019
ESO: LeHussardsurletoit

Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by Le Hussard sur le toit »

Aizamk wrote:Interested to hear what alternative suggestions to the coin mining mechanic in the videos users on ESOC might have. For these two nat civs, surely any method of retrieving coin that has zero interaction with mines on the map would have negative effects on balance?
I'd suggest a "don't fix what ain't broken" approach.
ESOC : came for the game, stayed for the drama.
User avatar
Malaysia Aizamk
Pro Player
ESOC WarChiefs Classic 2017
Posts: 1459
Joined: Feb 26, 2015
Location: ded

Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

  • Quote

Post by Aizamk »

japanesegeneral wrote:
Aizamk wrote:Interested to hear what alternative suggestions to the coin mining mechanic in the videos users on ESOC might have. For these two nat civs, surely any method of retrieving coin that has zero interaction with mines on the map would have negative effects on balance?
You could replace those mines (only for these civs) with salt. So the natives would gather salt instead of gold.
So what happens when we run out of the two starting salt mines and kaiser isn't around to provide more?
oranges.
User avatar
Denmark voigt1240
Lancer
Posts: 718
Joined: Jun 20, 2020
ESO: voigt

Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by voigt1240 »

This whole thing is just silly
User avatar
Canada forgrin
Howdah
Posts: 1873
Joined: Apr 27, 2015
ESO: Forgrin

Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by forgrin »

Aizamk wrote:Interested to hear what alternative suggestions to the coin mining mechanic in the videos users on ESOC might have. For these two nat civs, surely any method of retrieving coin that has zero interaction with mines on the map would have negative effects on balance?
I don't think having to interact with coin mines is necessary for balance. Reworking the unit costs so that coin makes more sense for the civs would be much better. Look at current Azzy (age 2 at least) for example; they mine very little, mostly shipping coin for pumas if they need it. I think that's a reasonable template for how the civs should work in age 2.

IMO all the archaic units should be food/wood not food/gold (looking at BR here).

For gunpowder units, coin makes sense, and if we're sticking to the fur trade idea then perhaps a building that allows you to allocate a certain percentage of your food or wood gathering to coin (like consulates with the export exchange rate) would be a good way to do it. Either way it can still easily be balanced; wood naturally gathers slowly, and hunts run out. Research techs to improve the passive exchange rates give eco options lategame for gunpowder unit heavy comps, until the switch to estates (plantations).

This is just a rough idea but IMO it's already much better than what Tantalus came up with.
https://www.twitch.tv/forgin14

"WTF WHERE ARE MY 10 FALCS" - AraGun_OP
Germany blasdg
Dragoon
Posts: 256
Joined: Mar 24, 2015

Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by blasdg »

In the end this changes nothing. Really nothing.

Sioux and Iro play EXACTLY like they did before. The coin-market building is super cheap, you start with one and the small wood cost is made up by the fact that it gathers coin even when there is no villager working. If your mine gets pressured you cant mine but that is exactly how it was when you gathered gold directly at a mine. If at all you can defend BETTER vs rushes because your building can be built towards your TC so that your vills are less far away than before.

Whas it a necessary change? Absolutely not, nobody really cares.
Is it any more realistic now? I dont think so.
Does it impact gameplay? Absolutely not.

So just ignore this change and move on, why discuss 3 more pages, entirely useless.
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

Post by Kaiserklein »

How can you pretend it doesn't affect gameplay? You said yourself it gathers when there are no villagers working, which is already a change. Allows you to have your vils closer to TC (or to whatever else). You have to macro your wood to build that thing everytime. It can get sieged down. It can block your vils or block your opponent probably. Possibly gives more LOS than vils. Does it have the same gather rate and the same placer mines upgrade? etc

There are so many factors, I won't believe that mechanic changes nothing. Maybe it's bearable though, we'll see.
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV