Lakota (Sioux) and Haudenosaunee (Iroquois).

[gamevideo113]

After hearing they removed (?) firepit i kinda want to cancel my preorder tbh

Seems more like they renamed it

Source?

[[Armag] diarouga]

After hearing they removed (?) firepit i kinda want to cancel my preorder tbh

Seems more like they renamed it

Source?

Noel is an ESOC admin

[n0el]

After hearing they removed (?) firepit i kinda want to cancel my preorder tbh

Seems more like they renamed it

Source?

It says in the article that they changed the fire pit to the community plaza, where villagers work together. Sounds like the fire pit renamed to me.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Ye, which is dumb but not nearly as bad as gold mine and convert change.

[duckzilla]

I appreciate the changes. Firstly, I am happy to learn about the correct names, especially the Haudenosaunee. Secondly, I see the changes with regard to fire pit and mining as chances to refresh a 15-years-old game.

[n0el]

Ye, which is dumb but not nearly as bad as gold mine and convert change.

Unless they change dances or dancing rates, it’s completely meaningless.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Ye, which is dumb but not nearly as bad as gold mine and convert change.

Unless they change dances or dancing rates, it’s completely meaningless.

It doesn't affect the game, like the civ name changes but it s still bad design imo.

[gibson]

I largely agree, but you have to understand that the changes were deemed offensive to their culture BECAUSE they were a historically inaccurate. They were the 16th century european's inaccurate interpretation of native americans. Its like if the dutch civ revolved around wind mills, wooden shoes, and whatever those flowers were. Obviously there are historical inaccuracies in all the civs, and still will be in the native american civs, but( to my knowledge) none of the other civs were based upon inaccurate historical stereotypes. If removing inaccurate historical stereotypes is considered pc, than sure, its a pc change. But to me a pc change would be like taking an all male group of soldiers and making them female. I have no problem with any civ in the game being changed to be more historically accurate. Now balance is a completely separate discussion. If they can't make changes to be both historically accurate and balanced, they need to reevaluate how important that change really is.

Sure, but I mean many civs are largely caricatures of their real history. They are random tidbits thrown together that really make little sense, particularly with regards to the context of the game (colonization, time frame etc.), see e.g. French (male only) cdbs.

The reason natives are being focused on is not that they are "particularly poorly represented". The issue is not that the difference between their "real history" and their "in game design and appearance" is larger than with other civs. In fact, I would argue that many other civs deviate from their real history in a similarly large way.

The literally only reasons for the change are: Currently, there is a large awareness of the "historical injustice" which was done to native Americans (and other native people) in the context of colonization. Therefore, aoe3 as a whole is particularly "problematic", because it is entirely based around (mostly/originally) Europeans conquering the world. A game like aoe3 would probably never be (originally) made in the political context of 2020.

In order to somewhat "remedy" this situation and to avoid a big backlash (as in, "how dare you glorify colonization in the time of BLM etc."), they did everything to show "good will" regarding native civs.

However, all of that is really nothing but PC. Now, that doesn't mean it's the end of the world, that it will ruin the game or anything. But I personally just dislike cultural sensitivities (especially when it is so one-sided and focused on one issue) shaping every aspect of the world nowadays.

Can you list some examples where other civs deviate from their history in a similarly large way? Right now you're just typing paragraphs explaining why they would make pc changes, but haven't given any examples to show that it actually is. I highly doubt there's a single example of a core mechanic( fire pit, nature friendship, mining etc) that didn't exist historically, but is in the game due to inaccurate historical stereotypes. I have yet to see anyone give a single actual argument for this being a purely a pc change. All people say is "other civs arent historically accurate" but won't give any examples because they know any example they give will pale in comparison to the native american inaccuracies. Now it would be foolish to say that the historical and ongoing mistreatment of native americans in the United States today has nothing to do with it, however, the primary reason is obviously historical inaccuracy, because if the civs were on par with european civs in terms of historical accuracy these changes wouldn't have had to have been made.

[n0el]

It’s a much better design, which has been explained here already.

[voigt1240]

Political reasons/pc aside. The gold thing just sounds like a bad change. I can get on board with the firepit change though and the name changes for that matter.

[gibson]

Political reasons/pc aside. The gold thing just sounds like a bad change. I can get on board with the firepit change though and the name changes for that matter.

How can you say its a bad change when you know nothing about it? It might be a bad change, it might be a good change, we don't know yet.

[voigt1240]

Political reasons/pc aside. The gold thing just sounds like a bad change. I can get on board with the firepit change though and the name changes for that matter.

How can you say its a bad change when you know nothing about it? It might be a bad change, it might be a good change, we don't know yet.

The impression i got from people who had behind the scene information in the other thread. they gave the impression it was a bad change. But all we can do is wait and see.

[aaryngend]

I appreciate the changes. Firstly, I am happy to learn about the correct names, especially the Haudenosaunee. Secondly, I see the changes with regard to fire pit and mining as chances to refresh a 15-years-old game.

Actually, the Iroquois were already called Haudenosaunee in The Warchiefs. They just wered named Iroquois as a civ, but the original aoe3 devs knew about that name too.
Just take a look at the manual:

[fightinfrenchman]

If you weren't in the beta, how can you comment that the mechanic changes are bad? If you were in the beta, how can you say that and not be breaking NDA?

[gibson]

Political reasons/pc aside. The gold thing just sounds like a bad change. I can get on board with the firepit change though and the name changes for that matter.

How can you say its a bad change when you know nothing about it? It might be a bad change, it might be a good change, we don't know yet.

The impression i got from people who had behind the scene information in the other thread. they gave the impression it was a bad change. But all we can do is wait and see.

fair

[[Armag] diarouga]

If you weren't in the beta, how can you comment that the mechanic changes are bad? If you were in the beta, how can you say that and not be breaking NDA?

I guess he can commentate without saying that he is in the beta. Just making random guesses and acting like he s talking out of his ass.

[gibson]

Its also interesting to me that certain people in this thread think that changes that don't effect gameplay but make the game more historically accurate are bad changes. You would think a change that doesn't effect gameplay but makes the game more historically accurate would be a good change. It says a lot about those certain people tbh.

[fightinfrenchman]

If you weren't in the beta, how can you comment that the mechanic changes are bad? If you were in the beta, how can you say that and not be breaking NDA?

I guess he can commentate without saying that he is in the beta. Just making random guesses and acting like he s talking out of his ass.

Or maybe he is just talking out of his ass

[[Armag] diarouga]

I just want to call Iro Iro that's it tbh. And it's going to confuse new players who won t find game resources and won t understand the old players.

[Squamiger]

I just want to call Iro Iro that's it tbh. And it's going to confuse new players who won t find game resources and won t understand the old players.

i think people will adapt and be fine

[fightinfrenchman]

I just want to call Iro Iro that's it tbh.

1.) You can call them whatever you want

2.) Any opinion you have on any other changes are made irrelevant by this comment

[rsy]

This honestly has me even more excited for the DE. Lots of fresh stuff incoming. Wondering how Houdinisauna is going to compare to RE iro

[gamevideo113]

Show hidden quotes

After hearing they removed (?) firepit i kinda want to cancel my preorder tbh

Seems more like they renamed it

Source?

It says in the article that they changed the fire pit to the community plaza, where villagers work together. Sounds like the fire pit renamed to me.

Saw it now, thanks. Just got lost in the paragraph-long rant about how offensive the firepit was.
Anyway, i'm sure they Lakota didn't call it "Plaza", speaking of historical accuracy.

[gibson]

I just want to call Iro Iro that's it tbh. And it's going to confuse new players who won t find game resources and won t understand the old players.

i think people will adapt and be fine

Yea they will. Its a whole lot less confusing than the fact that people are playing on multiple patches with much bigger changes than a name change. Or the tons of guides and other game resources that were written for different patches in different metas that are irrelevant now.

[[Armag] diarouga]

I just want to call Iro Iro that's it tbh.

1.) You can call them whatever you want

2.) Any opinion you have on any other changes are made irrelevant by this comment

Wtf?
1) That's my point of view. Just because you're American and you disagree doesn't make it a dumb statement.

2) Even if it was a dumb statement, why would it affect my other opinions? That's some solid ad personam sophism here. I could quote some of your posts and claim that it makes any of your opinion irrelevant.