Swedes early DE balance

[Garja]

Ok I played some Swedes and I think they're slightly too weak now (in beta they were maybe slightly too strong). Not that they're too bad but they're simply not compeititve imo, unless the opponent completely accomates your strat and then they have decent boom and decent military option.
So I've come up with some needed buffs:
- caroleans range should be the same of other musks. That 1 range missing is very annoying and makes them too inferior to regular musks.
- caroleans base range damage should be a bit stronger. 19 was maybe too good in beta but 14 is too weak. 16 with the same ROF is probably a good compromise. Otherwise just standardize the ROF and give them something like 20 attack.
- caroleans multiplier vs cav should be a bit better. 1.5x is barely significant, especially with such low base damage. The unit now simply loses to cav and a handful of ranged units behind them. Like 20 caroleans lose to 5 huss and 10 musks, despite being worth the same resources and supposed to counter cav. I think they do worse vs 10 musks + 5 huss than vs 20 muskets because cav are able to outmicro (same thing as ruskets but they're twice as expensive).
- leather cannon should have 4 speed just like most infantry units. They don't need 21 range (20 is fine). 3 speed is way too low to use the unit at all around the map. And since they have very messy turning animation it's not like with 4 speed they can kite that much. But at least they could kite for the first 2 shots and being useful around the map.
- leather cannon train time should be more lax. They just train way too fast for their cost. It's hard to get more than 2 per batch early on and sometimes even more than one (their cost ratio doesn't help). 5 more seconds should be good.

[amiggo1999]

I agree with all of this

[flontier]

Agree they deserve to be a bit better, the swe age2 play is super hard right now because of caroleans, i just play a game where i had to hold with those poor 14attack and -1 range boys vs 32 attack ashigaru + they outrange lol. leather canon arent enough good to compensate.

[Riotcoke]

They're nerfed more on the Press release so gl

[Imperial Noob]

Sweden seems very weak to an early aggression such as that by Russia at the moment. And yeah, caroleans are really feeble, losing to lancers really hard compared to other musk units.

Their quick running and melee attack is a bit weird in that it overlaps with what huss can do.

[Garja]

Also hackas should have like 10 range by default, the minimum to kite with accurate micro. The range card in ageIII should not affect them.

[n0el]

Agreed with this 100%, the only way swedes can win is mercs, but once people get smart to that it won't work.

[Garja]

Also I'm not sure about the obstruction radius of leather cannons. Currently they are like staggered by default and I guess that shuold help with the turning animation, however z moving from a wide line is dispersive. Each cannon ends up shooting a completely different target and they don't do much. On top of that they just path awfully around buildings. Like they take forever to go around the foundry itself. Should consider decreasing the radius.

[gibson]

Agree they deserve to be a bit better, the swe age2 play is super hard right now because of caroleans, i just play a game where i had to hold with those poor 14attack and -1 range boys vs 32 attack ashigaru + they outrange lol. leather canon arent enough good to compensate.

Yea, swede fold and die early cause caroleans are just not good at all vs anything early

[n0el]

and they are getting nerfed in the press release? their only saving grace is the torps on mines, and thats getting 40% nerf...

[Zutazuta]

+1 to the G

[fightinfrenchman]

Anyone play them in treaty?

[Jets]

Caroleans look like a weak dismounted cav archer with those stats.

[Challenger_Marco]

If G says it then it should be right.

[HUMMAN]

did NDA lifted?

[Mr_Bramboy]

Don't forget to post this on the official forums too. I believe there are a few FE staff lurking around here but most of the attention will be on the official forums.

[fei123456]

Is leather cannon useful after fortress age? I guess falconets will replace them in most of the games, while abus is still a good unit in late game.

[Darwin_]

They should remove carolean's ranged attack multiplier vs cav, standardize the ROF, but give their hand attack a big increase. Should also just make the unit 4.5 or 4.75 speed in all formations.

[harcha]

They should remove carolean's ranged attack multiplier vs cav, standardize the ROF, but give their hand attack a big increase. Should also just make the unit 4.5 or 4.75 speed in all formations.

i think that would be a bit too strong but also make the unit less interesting which goes against the goal. personally i think it would be cool if they would use the higher speed mode automatically when going to a far waypoint and low speed mode when going to a close waypoint, kinda how units walk in a column when going far, but abreast when going near.

[I_HaRRiiSoN_I]

EVERYONE is just playing swedes, its now got to the point of being annoying

[[Armag] diarouga]

I think Swedes is decent honestly. It's just very very hard to play.

[helln00]

Swedes feels like if japan and germany had a very weird baby that eats stinky fish

[harcha]

Is it worth it placing torps on berry bushes?

[helln00]

Is it worth it placing torps on berry bushes?

If its close to other resources then its a nice bonus, by themselves though I dont think so

[chronique]

Swedes feels like if japan and germany had a very weird baby that eats stinky fish

Kaiserklein and iamturk baby???