Swedes early DE balance

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Re: Swedes early DE balance

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Post by Hazza54321 »

chronique wrote:
helln00 wrote:Swedes feels like if japan and germany had a very weird baby that eats stinky fish
Kaiserklein and iamturk baby???
turk did destroy kaiser enough times it was bound to happen as he never wore protection
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Re: Swedes early DE balance

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[Armag] diarouga wrote:I think Swedes is decent honestly. It's just very very hard to play.
Decent yes, for sure. Competitive probably no.
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Re: Swedes early DE balance

Post by amiggo1999 »

I think the caroleans meelee speed should be reduced, and the ranged multiplier be kept. The unit is very strong in too many aspects if they can destroy any unit in meelee in age 2, and then be the best anti goon/cav in age 3 as well as outrange musk with ease.
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Re: Swedes early DE balance

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Garja wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:I think Swedes is decent honestly. It's just very very hard to play.
Decent yes, for sure. Competitive probably no.
I think it's competitive. You probably don't do the best build orders.
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Re: Swedes early DE balance

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Sweden is more than fine, it's just you need to figure out right build orders
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Re: Swedes early DE balance

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[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Garja wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:I think Swedes is decent honestly. It's just very very hard to play.
Decent yes, for sure. Competitive probably no.
I think it's competitive. You probably don't do the best build orders.
I did. I have at least 3-4 generic builds for Swedes, including the tp+blueberry into 700w and ironwork (with delayed 2 rax for max efficiency) which is the "best" build order for them.
It's just that lot of civs can rush you with RI and force you out of the optimal build. Also it's relatively easy to exploit the lack of a RI unit early on. And the ironwork card will be nerfed too upon realease so even the optimal build won't be that strong anymore.
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Re: Swedes early DE balance

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deleted_user wrote:Sweden is more than fine, it's just you need to figure out right build orders
You have no clue what you're talking about.
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Re: Swedes early DE balance

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Garja wrote:
deleted_user wrote:Sweden is more than fine, it's just you need to figure out right build orders
You have no clue what you're talking about.
are you on your period garja? you seem to be nervous.
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Re: Swedes early DE balance

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Garja wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:
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I think it's competitive. You probably don't do the best build orders.
I did. I have at least 3-4 generic builds for Swedes, including the tp+blueberry into 700w and ironwork (with delayed 2 rax for max efficiency) which is the best build order for them.
It's just that lot of civs can rush you with RI and force you out of the optimal build. Also it's relatively easy to exploit the lack of a RI unit early on. And the ironwork card will be nerfed too upon realease so even the optimal build won't be that strong anymore.
tp+blueberry is awful. It's just worse than the other build orders.
If ironwork gets nerfed Sweden will suck though.
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Re: Swedes early DE balance

Post by Challenger_Marco »

@[Armag] diarouga what tier you rate Sweden now?
:nwc:
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Re: Swedes early DE balance

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Nah it does not suck. It's huge resource income, if you get away with it it's the best build. But you can also go without TP and bluberry and just 1 or 2 houses in age1. It's basically the same just a bit less greedy. The point is not the eco anyway, even 700g might be better in certain cases over ironwork. The point is that the civ has no RI unit in colo (except for xbows and the 2 cannon shipment) so you have to play around that and it can be hard. Need to reach a decent mass of caroleans and with some ups to contest mass RI or even just mass musks. For example Brits or Jap are a tough MU even tho you're somewhat free to do your optimal greedy build.
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Re: Swedes early DE balance

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Post by Garja »

deleted_user wrote:
Garja wrote:
deleted_user wrote:Sweden is more than fine, it's just you need to figure out right build orders
You have no clue what you're talking about.
are you on your period garja? you seem to be nervous.
No, I'm just annoyed by your low IQ as usual.
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Re: Swedes early DE balance

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the games been out for early access for like 5 days and you all claim you know the civ
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Re: Swedes early DE balance

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Well, we played it in beta too. Also dunno about others but it's all I've been playing on DE. Probably did more testing on Swedes than on any EP beta patch lol.
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Re: Swedes early DE balance

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Challenger_Marco wrote:@[Armag] diarouga what tier you rate Sweden now?
tier 2 prob.
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Re: Swedes early DE balance

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Garja wrote:Nah it does not suck. It's huge resource income, if you get away with it it's the best build. But you can also go without TP and bluberry and just 1 or 2 houses in age1. It's basically the same just a bit less greedy. The point is not the eco anyway, even 700g might be better in certain cases over ironwork. The point is that the civ has no RI unit in colo (except for xbows and the 2 cannon shipment) so you have to play around that and it can be hard. Need to reach a decent mass of caroleans and with some ups to contest mass RI or even just mass musks. For example Brits or Jap are a tough MU even tho you're somewhat free to do your optimal greedy build.
You don't want to play in age 2, that's the thing. And the berry shipment is simply bad. I tested boom with and without berry card and the boom without berry card is superior.
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Re: Swedes early DE balance

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Post by dansil92 »

Its been 5 days, swede meta is established, garja has 100% optimized the build orders, and i expect his guide to be completed by next week
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Re: Swedes early DE balance

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[Armag] diarouga wrote:
Garja wrote:Nah it does not suck. It's huge resource income, if you get away with it it's the best build. But you can also go without TP and bluberry and just 1 or 2 houses in age1. It's basically the same just a bit less greedy. The point is not the eco anyway, even 700g might be better in certain cases over ironwork. The point is that the civ has no RI unit in colo (except for xbows and the 2 cannon shipment) so you have to play around that and it can be hard. Need to reach a decent mass of caroleans and with some ups to contest mass RI or even just mass musks. For example Brits or Jap are a tough MU even tho you're somewhat free to do your optimal greedy build.
You don't want to play in age 2, that's the thing. And the berry shipment is simply bad. I tested boom with and without berry card and the boom without berry card is superior.
Ye but you cannot age if the opponent doesn't allow you to. I don't know who you played all the time but anyone who has experience with DE tries to put swedes in a tough spot by being aggressive.
As for bluberry being bad it's not true. I also like to skip it if I have even just a reason but it's mostly because with starting TP you age too late. If you can get away with it it's huge food income for pretty much the rest of the game.

Also btw I love how Breeze likes every post you make lol. Such a shameless cock sucker.
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Re: Swedes early DE balance

Post by Garja »

dansil92 wrote:Its been 5 days, swede meta is established, garja has 100% optimized the build orders, and i expect his guide to be completed by next week
We played it in beta too.
Also I don't know what you have against me but you better stop.
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Re: Swedes early DE balance

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Lol that's a lovely little threat
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Re: Swedes early DE balance

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dansil92 wrote:Lol that's a lovely little threat
You dare question the mighty G!? You shalt OBEY!!!
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
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Re: Swedes early DE balance

Post by amiggo1999 »

Remove Carolean meelee speed, buff their range attack to like 17-18. Might have to adjust age 3 multiplier vs cav Card as well with this change.
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Re: Swedes early DE balance

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Post by n0el »

The civ would be boring as shit if Caroleans are just another musk with different stats, melee speed makes them a unique unit.
mad cuz bad
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Re: Swedes early DE balance

Post by amiggo1999 »

n0el wrote:The civ would be boring as shit if Caroleans are just another musk with different stats, melee speed makes them a unique unit.
they'd still be a fast musk, with higher rof, range multiplier vs cav, ability to have more range as well as range resist....
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Re: Swedes early DE balance

Post by Riotcoke »

n0el wrote:The civ would be boring as shit if Caroleans are just another musk with different stats, melee speed makes them a unique unit.
They're just broken in their current state though, you never have to take a bad fight, you can just spam them only vs like 5 civs and in melee they're too strong. Against goons they're too strong and finally they're on par with cyotes with raiding but you can't catch them as everything that has more or the same speed loses vs them.
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