Day 1 Inca thoughts

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Day 1 Inca thoughts

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Post by forgrin »

I've been playing 100% Inca today and I thought I'd update y'all on what the civ is like when you try to rush with it.

First off,
The deck
inca_deck.png
(I basically never go age 3+ so nothing there is concrete).

The BO I've been doing is very straighforward and something I found almost immediately after picking up the civ.
Simply, drop 2 houses and chop for a third, ship 2 llama and age on 12 vill with 2 WH (eating one fat llama). There is no idle time unless you screw up herding or don't eat the llama fast enough.
In transition chop for 3 houses (though tbh market + HD + house might be better). Ship 600w upon aging.
Switch all vills to food (eating the other fat llama).
Use the 600w to drop 3 more houses (you have 9 now), and train a double batch of units from your warhuts.

- For an earlier timing, ship units after 600w.
- For a later timing, swap some vills to wood and ship 4 fat llamas.
- For a balanced approach simply ship 600w again and drop houses/make units as desired.

Whenever you plan to make your timing, eat your skinny llama and push for BB + unit shipment + as many units as possible from 2 WH. I strongly suggest to only go bow/pike. The coyote equivalents are utter garbage.

What works

- This might be the best bow/pike rush civ in the game, at least unit-wise. The units are very strong and your warchief is a beast with his special attack.
- Your units cost mostly food while still having good stats, meaning you beat out other food/wood units on cost efficiency and can drain opponents of their mines while yours are untouched. I beat a higher ranked Otto who was using Jan/Abus simply by trading archers for his abus til he ran out of mines, while I had the whole map of food to eat.
- 2 builder travois == 2 WH is an incredibly strong ageup. You get an extremely strong FB that you can pop double batches out of.
- The American Allies card is somewhat janky and can let you do a weird nat all-in on the right maps. Basically skip 2 llamas and ship this card instead (making 2 houses age 1 instead of 3), use one of your builder travois for a nat post, and ship native treaties for a very weird push that's a bit stronger than the normal build, and whose strength is dependent on the nats you get. If you're on a map with good cav nats it might be worth it.

What doesn't

- You have no cav unit. This means if you lose the bow mass advantage against other bow civs, you probably lose the game. Also means you can't snare easily, so you end up fighting battles of attrition.
- Your eco is quite weak and you have to supplement with crates/llamas. Not the end of the world, but it will put you behind vs civs like Brits who have a good age 2 boom.
- Fortress is the no-go zone, for you or for your opponent. Don't take the game to fortress. Trading ageups with pretty much any civ is bad for you. I have clicked up to fortress maybe twice in ~15 inca games today, and I'm happy with that.

Notes:
-> Chicha brewing is pretty weak. It's equivalent to 5 vills with HD at ~11 houses, which is 2 from max. I would only recommend sending it after you've sent 600w twice to add houses in.
-> The TC card is fine, but I think it gives too much tempo away. If your opponent gets up to fortress and gets 2 falcs, you are 100% boned, so you need to keep up the pressure and gathering coin for the shipment plus dumping food into a second TC is probably the best way to lose quick. It is good once you've forced your opponent to commit to colonial and you think he can't age, at that point you can use it to solidify your advantage.
-> Don't underestimate the age 2 unit speed card, it gives you a solid kiting advantage with your bows (which already start with 4.25 speed) and lets your pikes reposition more quickly and potentially even catch some cheeky snares.
-> Just never train the coyote units, you'll be better off.
-> Priestesses are a meme, and tbh the firepit doesn't seem nearly as useful with Incas as with Azzy. This is I think the biggest difference between the two civs. The XP is nice but not necessary, and you have to commit either a shipment for the priestesses or vill time to train them, neither of which sounds better than just having more bows out.
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"WTF WHERE ARE MY 10 FALCS" - AraGun_OP
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Re: Day 1 Inca thoughts

Post by Rohbrot »

Nice inca guide!
:flowers:
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Re: Day 1 Inca thoughts

Post by forgrin »

Oh forgot to mention, but with the explorer's AoE ability you can take certain treasures extremely fast. 3 cougars/wolves/black bears treas can be taken in ~5 sec if you get the aoe splash right.
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Re: Day 1 Inca thoughts

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

It sounds like a weaker version of Aztec, right?
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Re: Day 1 Inca thoughts

Post by Rohbrot »

Their houses have a food trickle or?
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Re: Day 1 Inca thoughts

Post by forgrin »

@Diarouga I'd say it's more like playing bow/pike rush as Brits, where the bow/pike play is better but you have no other options.

@Rohbrot it's 0.5f/s trickle that doubles with the Chicha brewing card in age 2.
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Re: Day 1 Inca thoughts

Post by howlingwolfpaw »

Somehow there has got to be a strat for priestess to take over vils gathering at a mine.... I did this in a FFA snagged a few swede vils while he was busy in a fight or something... started a war, got wrecked. note converted vils wont make all types of buildings.

They have some interesting cards for some off the wall play styles.
Weird things like estates with trickles of coin
invisible buildings ( in a FFA my enemy destoryed my base leaving my invisible forts to keep training units)
natives available to supplement military.

Age 3 units seem underwhelming, though a good macemen ball is kinda fun. Problem is if you garrison anything into one of those forts, you cant tell that there is any. I only figured it out when I had no vils left and was just spamming from my resources left, but my army was so small. I thought it was a glitch for a while..... until I realize I could do idle millitary and it came up to a fort.

also odd if you make all 13 houses that will not give you full pop back, you have to make town centers.... why? just make them worth a little more? or make more but less trickle?
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Re: Day 1 Inca thoughts

Post by forgrin »

The 13 house maximum really bothers me, you can't get max pop in age 2 for whatever reason. Really troll on behalf of the devs.
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Re: Day 1 Inca thoughts

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Post by uberjz »

I spent almost the whole day trying to make the civ work, but it's just so disappointing. The house boom is decent, but worse than brits. Their rush is decent, but worse than aztecs. Their TC boom/turtle is decent, but worse than ports. Inca has a lot of options, but all of these options are inferior versions of what other civs can do, because inca doesn't have an eco card to send age 1.

The most promising option is probably to do TP in transition, use the 2 builder politician to get WH + TP upon age up, get early stagecoach and do an age 2 timing. Still not amazing though.

Sad
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Re: Day 1 Inca thoughts

Post by forgrin »

@uberjz I would say stagecoach isn't that good with Inca for 2 reasons, first that their TPs cost 250w each, and secondly that their units cost mostly food so stagecoach isn't very efficient for them.
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Re: Day 1 Inca thoughts

Post by blasdg »

You want to win vs aggressive Inca?
Send colonial militia and go fortress, there is absolutely nothing Inca can do to stop you because their bows get 1-shot and pikes 2-shot.
Skirm/goon wrecks Inca.
Cannon wreck Inca.

You want to win vs defensive Inca?
Go FF and mass cannons + whatever unit in front, preferably Caroleans :P

You want to win vs invisible fortress Inca with 2 cards + town dance?
Go Industrial and build 3 Mortars, Inca spends all his resources and cards for defense and still cant do shit vs mortars + all their Kallanka (Noble hut) units are extremely bad.

@forgrin: Before you could build 15 houses and the devs thought it was OP so they got nerfed and you can only build 13 houses now. Somehow they simply "forgot" to increase the population per kancha house.
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Re: Day 1 Inca thoughts

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Post by forgrin »

blasdg wrote:You want to win vs aggressive Inca?
Send colonial militia and go fortress, there is absolutely nothing Inca can do to stop you because their bows get 1-shot and pikes 2-shot.
Skirm/goon wrecks Inca.
Cannon wreck Inca.

You want to win vs defensive Inca?
Go FF and mass cannons + whatever unit in front, preferably Caroleans :P

You want to win vs invisible fortress Inca with 2 cards + town dance?
Go Industrial and build 3 Mortars, Inca spends all his resources and cards for defense and still cant do shit vs mortars + all their Kallanka (Noble hut) units are extremely bad.

@forgrin: Before you could build 15 houses and the devs thought it was OP so they got nerfed and you can only build 13 houses now. Somehow they simply "forgot" to increase the population per kancha house.
Seems like even the devs forgot about Inca lol. So sad that this problem exists in what is supposed to be a game ready for release -.-
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Re: Day 1 Inca thoughts

Post by Lukas_L99 »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:It sounds like a weaker version of Aztec, right?
Weaker early on, but much better eco potential.
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Re: Day 1 Inca thoughts

Post by blasdg »

But what units do you build, assuming you have the imba eco? They all kinda suck...
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Re: Day 1 Inca thoughts

Post by forgrin »

Their eco isn't even that good. Houses are like 13 extra vills after an age 2 card and 1775 wood invested. Extra TCs are only as good as the resources you can gather.
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Re: Day 1 Inca thoughts

Post by blasdg »

I just played the worst game of the last years, vs some random PR19 dude from these forums.

He made PURE caroleans, never built any other unit (shipped bows and cannons obv) and I made almost PURE Jungle Archers and guess what - I got destroyed by melee mode caroleans.

He misplayed twice and got his leather cannons and 2 falcs sniped by my otherwise useless cav but hey, in the end, which busted civ has the eco to go age 3 and continue carolean spam?

Its not Inca. What a sad game, thinking about refunding. GJ @ whoever was in the balance team.
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Re: Day 1 Inca thoughts

Post by _NT_sven »

Inca can be even more aggressive with the Native Allies card. On proper maps you can make a native TP first instead of 2 or 3 houses. Build another one in transition and eat the llamas, and you can send the first colonial shipment via the forward base native TP and make full batches of units early on. Or press the big button. Inca chief has 20% hp aura for native warriors which is super good.
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Re: Day 1 Inca thoughts

Post by blasdg »

Tambos are 250w for Inca so you really need to chop wood in order to get at least ONE house. Then, if you build a second Tambo you will end up with at most 2 houses in age 2 with a 13 vill eco. This is all with the llamas sent to age-up at 4:40. Please elaborate on how you want to build full batches + villagers, as I said, you have a 13 villager economy. This barely enough for vills + 2-4 units from ONE tambo.

Its completely all-in and you have absolutely no economy to fall back on should your opponent simply stay inside his TC fire radius.
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Re: Day 1 Inca thoughts

Post by _NT_sven »

blasdg wrote:Tambos are 250w for Inca so you really need to chop wood in order to get at least ONE house. Then, if you build a second Tambo you will end up with at most 2 houses in age 2 with a 13 vill eco. This is all with the llamas sent to age-up at 4:40. Please elaborate on how you want to build full batches + villagers, as I said, you have a 13 villager economy. This barely enough for vills + 2-4 units from ONE tambo.

Its completely all-in and you have absolutely no economy to fall back on should your opponent simply stay inside his TC fire radius.
You don't really need any house, for each tambo provides 5 pop already. You can go age up with 11 vill.
Plum blossoms fall below the steps like whirling snow;
They cover me still though brushed off a while ago.

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Re: Day 1 Inca thoughts

Post by blasdg »

Without houses your economy will be even worse and you suggest aging up with 11 villagers? Like what:D
I guess it COULD work if you put every vill on wood and send 4 llamas second card, if you are lucky and you get food heavy natives you can get a super weird all-in rush...
I guarantee it will lose to pretty much every player > PR25 :D

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