Best Players of all time

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France [Armag] diarouga
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Re: Best Players of all time

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Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Nice list. There is no way you can put blackstar below me though, and I'd argue that blackstar is more talented than _H2O. _H2O really put a lot of work into his game (he played jap mirrors for 6 months before the WCG), blackstar was pure talent.
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Re: Best Players of all time

Post by Donye »

Garja wrote:Eh, agesanc wasn't exactly the most chill place. Surely not as toxic as gaming nowadays but it had it's own share of disputes and such.
Aye Agesanc had plenty of nobs too. I think it's more gaming as a whole nowadays rather than an esoc thing
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Re: Best Players of all time

Post by Rohbrot »

Ye, i agree. Bsop was a monster and im really lucky to have played many times with him or vs him or even obs'd his 1vs1's back in 2014 where he would play on voobly with @hwoarang , @AraGun , @Irishunfaithful and some other talented players at those times. Anyways, he was bot at microing and macroing and he was even very good on Sea (what we dont see from todays top players much "going sea and winning games")
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Re: Best Players of all time

Post by iNcog »

I think iamturk needs to be mentioned somewhere in this thread.
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I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: Best Players of all time

Post by Rohbrot »

iNcog wrote:I think iamturk needs to be mentioned somewhere in this thread.
Sadly but i think @iamturk has the skill of the todaya top players but due not playing much and maybe not tryharding he wont ever be mentioned in this thread.
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Re: Best Players of all time

Post by dicktator_ »

iamturk is lacking tournament results imo. He's only won empire cup (which was a good win, but was like a two-weekender tournament iirc) and 2018 Autumn 2nd Chance (was 2nd chance but he had a very strong finals opponent), and his other tournament results are mostly ro8 and occasionally ro4 in weekend tours. I think he needs 1 big win.
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Re: Best Players of all time

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

I think people care too much about tournament results. It makes sense because it's the only objective factor. I've played all the 2015+ top players though, and I give more credit to the 50-100 games I've played against some players than to tournament results.
The drawback is that it's very subjective.
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Re: Best Players of all time

Post by skwzz_madness »

This is kind of like asking who the greatest Quarterback in NFL history is. I suppose mostly only Americans will understand the comparison here but obviously there are only a handful of people who would fall in this debate... like no more than three... Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Joe Montana... perhaps Drew Brees?

So I'd like to give my opinion in that line of thinking...

Everyone is saying H20.... back in my day of playing this game alot he wasn't a top 5 player if I remember correctly so I can't comment much on him. But I'll include him since everyone else's consensus seems to be that he is a top player.

I would additionally add iamgrunt, NaturePhoenix, and Black_ice_Spain (who remembers that 1v1 between Black_ice_Spain and GG Magic? I still have the recording).

Anyway I'm sure this will be greatly debated and your opinion will come down to which era of the game you played most in which had the most active players. In my opinion that would be the first 3 or 4 years (2005-2009) and so those few names I mentioned would be top contenders for #1 of all time.
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Re: Best Players of all time

Post by Rohbrot »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:I think people care too much about tournament results. It makes sense because it's the only objective factor. I've played all the 2015+ top players though, and I give more credit to the 50-100 games I've played against some players than to tournament results.
The drawback is that it's very subjective.
Whats ur opionion about turk at the end?
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Re: Best Players of all time

Post by iNcog »

Tournament results matter more than ladder performance. Even taking rote skill into account. imo
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Garja wrote: ↑
20 Mar 2020, 21:46
I just hope DE is not going to implement all of the EP changes. Right now it is a big clusterfuck.
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Re: Best Players of all time

Post by Rohbrot »

iNcog wrote:Tournament results matter more than ladder performance. Even taking rote skill into account. imo
Most people didnt place kaiser into #2 cuz he hasnt won any big title, so i guess tourney results matter but we know how people can fuck up under pressures and this is just an additional term of being overall a good player.
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Re: Best Players of all time

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

Rohbrot wrote:
[Armag] diarouga wrote:I think people care too much about tournament results. It makes sense because it's the only objective factor. I've played all the 2015+ top players though, and I give more credit to the 50-100 games I've played against some players than to tournament results.
The drawback is that it's very subjective.
Whats ur opionion about turk at the end?
He's a great player but from my experience against him, he's worse than most of the players mentioned above.
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Re: Best Players of all time

Post by skwzz_madness »

iNcog wrote:Tournament results matter more than ladder performance. Even taking rote skill into account. imo

I don't agree. The winners of tournaments basically comes down to skill+ who can lame a certain civ that's lame at the moment better.

Over time and consistency playing different civs I think matters alot.

I think NaturePhoenix should be considered as GOAT because he did it primarily playing British... it's hard to be THAT good with brits when you are competing against so so many other lame civs. Just my opinion though.
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Re: Best Players of all time

Post by Rohbrot »

If we talk about EP tourneys i dont think someone could abuse lame civs in any ways with rules like "first pick" , "not be able to play with any civ with which u won once" or map veto.
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Re: Best Players of all time

Post by vividlyplain »

skwzz_madness wrote:
iNcog wrote:Tournament results matter more than ladder performance. Even taking rote skill into account. imo

I don't agree. The winners of tournaments basically comes down to skill+ who can lame a certain civ that's lame at the moment better.

Over time and consistency playing different civs I think matters alot.

I think NaturePhoenix should be considered as GOAT because he did it primarily playing British... it's hard to be THAT good with brits when you are competing against so so many other lame civs. Just my opinion though.
This is anecdotal at best. Tourney winners have to be well rounded with multiple civs and face counterpicks and play on a variety of maps, etc. You can play ladder games (well up until DE) by lamming the same civ on the same map which would give you an elo boost over others training for tournies or trying new strats and what not.
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Re: Best Players of all time

Post by Zutazuta »

skwzz_madness wrote:
iNcog wrote:Tournament results matter more than ladder performance. Even taking rote skill into account. imo

I don't agree. The winners of tournaments basically comes down to skill+ who can lame a certain civ that's lame at the moment better.

Over time and consistency playing different civs I think matters alot.

I think NaturePhoenix should be considered as GOAT because he did it primarily playing British... it's hard to be THAT good with brits when you are competing against so so many other lame civs. Just my opinion though.
No way. NP wasn’t even the best player of his era and really only played 1 civ at his top level. He’s good, but not on par with most other players mentioned in most lists here.
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Re: Best Players of all time

Post by spadel »

How was he not the best player during his era after grunt? IIRC he won at least half of the tournaments until wcg08, he was leading the ladderboards and had the highest PR ever. Also you shouldn't forget that he contributed A LOT to the community by posting a huge amount of his recs. At that time, that was actually a huge thing. Recorded games were the only way to study top players and while there existed maybe 10 high level games of grunt, NP posted hundreds of recs on a voluntary basis allowing everybody to study his play style.

Unfortunately for some reason him and grunt avoided each other. I could imagine that they were almost at the same level. But again, I was only about lt col when I played against him, my opinion is mostly based on recorded games. Maybe challe or samwise could comment on him I would be interested for sure.
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Re: Best Players of all time

Post by princeofkabul »

who is better pasi94 or spadel???
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Re: Best Players of all time

Post by skwzz_madness »

Zutazuta wrote:
skwzz_madness wrote:
iNcog wrote:Tournament results matter more than ladder performance. Even taking rote skill into account. imo

I don't agree. The winners of tournaments basically comes down to skill+ who can lame a certain civ that's lame at the moment better.

Over time and consistency playing different civs I think matters alot.

I think NaturePhoenix should be considered as GOAT because he did it primarily playing British... it's hard to be THAT good with brits when you are competing against so so many other lame civs. Just my opinion though.
No way. NP wasn’t even the best player of his era and really only played 1 civ at his top level. He’s good, but not on par with most other players mentioned in most lists here.
You were saying?

https://camo.eso-community.net/45c4e24e ... 372e6a7067
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Re: Best Players of all time

Post by Zutazuta »

skwzz_madness wrote:
Zutazuta wrote:
Show hidden quotes
No way. NP wasn’t even the best player of his era and really only played 1 civ at his top level. He’s good, but not on par with most other players mentioned in most lists here.
You were saying?

https://camo.eso-community.net/45c4e24e ... 372e6a7067
Right, I forgot how one screenshot of the ladder means he’s better than everyone else. At least make a real argument xD
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Re: Best Players of all time

Post by Challenger_Marco »

[Armag] diarouga wrote:Nice list. There is no way you can put blackstar below me though, and I'd argue that blackstar is more talented than _H2O. _H2O really put a lot of work into his game (he played jap mirrors for 6 months before the WCG), blackstar was pure talent.
I didn't rank anyone yet was just highlighting what they were good at & that list doesn't matter once i highlight more players might give approx later today.
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Re: Best Players of all time

Post by aelena »

I had to make an account just to comment on this, the best player of all time is iamgrunt, 2nd is H2o. Anyone who thinks differently is wrong/delusional
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Re: Best Players of all time

Post by Donye »

princeofkabul wrote:who is better pasi94 or spadel???

Was Pasi that German guy? Or am I thinking of someone else?
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France [Armag] diarouga
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Re: Best Players of all time

Post by [Armag] diarouga »

aelena wrote:I had to make an account just to comment on this, the best player of all time is iamgrunt, 2nd is H2o. Anyone who thinks differently is wrong/delusional
Not saying you're wrong here, but you haven't played since 2012, so you can't really judge the new players.
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Re: Best Players of all time

Post by Challenger_Marco »

Well ig there are some ppl lurking and not posting but nice to see new/old ppl interact hope others can post their thoughts too don't be shy.
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