What do you think about Japanese?

[ssaa22]

If you think they are strong, why are they strong? If you think they are weak, why are they weak?

Personally, I think they are difficult and difficult to deal with. Therefore, they are strong.

[aaryngend]

Very strong. Especially in team games.
Why? Amazing eco, nice scaling, all of their civ bonuses and perks stack so well together. You could write a whole book why the Japanese are so dapper.

[Snuden]

I married one.

[harcha]

@Snuden did it have nice scaling and super scary power spike?

[Snuden]

@Snuden did it have nice scaling and super scary power spike?

Ngl... She had (and still have) a super scary power spike.

[SquidTheSid]

I think they're an awfully designed unfun civ that ignores half of the game mechanics (map control isn't needed as Japan). But compared to DE's new civs, they're a masterclass of design.

The big problem I have is that they can sit unpressured in their base for 20 minutes while walling up and spamming ashis/yumi to kill pretty much everything. Having more gold-heavy units would force Japan to migrate out earlier and care about map control.

[helln00]

I think Mitoe once said that the longer a game goes on the better it gets for japan no matter the build order, that has continued to be true for every game I played against them

[Astaroth]

It's not really true that Japan doesn't care about map control. If you kill their shrines and take stage on TP maps and they let all of that happen, the odds are in tbe favor of the opponent.

No top Japan player just lets that happen but has to defend his shrines, push put against stage etc.

[deleted_user]

75w map hacking factories that steal your closest natural res are good and fair and good for the game

[Leafy]

This civ is annoying to play against, hunt stealing, impossible to be raid, crazy boom, ashi raiding etc, definitely required a nerf

[dansil92]

75w map hacking factories that steal your closest natural res are good and fair and good for the game

I have no idea if you're referring to sweden or japan and that essentially sums up the originality of swedes design

[chronique]

To me japan is not op (in 1v1) but because it's super annoying to play against, it instaure a sort of confirmation bias. When you loose against france, that's ok when you loose against japan, it's because they are op. Based on statistic japandon't seem op (i remember how many time kaiser raged agaist japan as german but stat showing with german, his best winrates was against japan ^^).

[Jaeger]

Perhaps a way to encourage map control for Japan is to drastically reduce the shrine HP. Then if they can't throw down shrines without thinking as much, and if they want to keep them alive, they have to be out on the map.
I am aware that there are some builds with Japan where you don't rely so much on shrines. But I'm not sure how good those strats are, and if they're good, I'm not sure how much an HP reduction would help you vs them.

[helln00]

japan is defintely not op but the way they are designed punishes indecision really hard and once they start winning you have less chances at a comeback.

[iCourt]

The design of the civ is too similar to British. Its only major differences really being the free manor villager is swapped out for a free pseudo villager, and the magical 4th export resource.

I actually really liked their design in AgeSanc Fan Patch with 15 pop shrines but they could only build 15 of them. Made their max boom a little weaker, and they bumped up their max villager count. Made them feel just a bit less like a Brit clone.

Are they too strong? Eh, only maybe in team games. More annoying and frustrating to play against. I hate clicking in to any game vs them. Love playing as them.

[Jaeger]

Seriously? They feel very far from British to me. While they do have some big picture similarities, such as going musk huss and house booming, at the small scale (when you're actually playing them) they feel very different from Brit IMO.
-Interactions with the consulate, and age 1 and later
-Different age 1 shipment options
-Constatly jockey for houses on the map
-You basically have a factory all game
-You are not forced to take the map and always worry about raids as with Brit
-Don't have a billion vills that you have to micro
-Very different "ageup politicians"
-Have Daymios
-Shipments can be sent twice

[iCourt]

Seriously.

[dansil92]

I think japan and brits are a lot alike. Archers instead of skirms, goons nobody uses, musk-focused, house boom, always shipping artillery, good cav...

[scarm]

The big problem I have is that they can sit unpressured in their base for 20 minutes while walling up and spamming ashis/yumi to kill pretty much everything. Having more gold-heavy units would force Japan to migrate out earlier and care about map control.

The thing with this is, it just is not true. Try playing as japan (the best thing to learn how to play against a civ is learning how to play a civ in general imo). You will realize that you don't magically win the game after a certain timer X has run out. If you only sit in base your eco will very quickly be outscaled by almost any civ, due to natural res, tradeposts, water, and sieged shrines. Also Jap's Units are already very gold-intensive if you think about it. Ashi cost more gold in relation to most musks, Nagi cost more coin than most cav, Yabusame are very gold-heavy, Flaming Arrows as well. Technically Sams cost a lot of gold too, but yeah...


Also yeah in theoretical design brits and jap seem very similar. I don't think their playstyle is similar at all though, they feel so different imo.

[iCourt]

Berry Brits.

[scarm]

Turns out vegetarian brits are actually japanese

[sebnan12]

Yea no he is right though. I know good players keep saying how easy it is to beat japan. But u always have to play better or else u lose. On re i kept having ridicoulusly easy wins with japan in qs by literally camping in base and fi.
On ep they still did very good for me despite more natural resources. So yea u always need to never fuck up or japan slaughters u. And people playing japan in teamgames are just boring.
So yea camping in base for 20 mins seems accurate for me.
(unless they got nerfed on de then ignore what i said)

[CuCkO0]

Buff japan plz

[Challenger_Marco]

japan is not easy to play in 1v1 ,so much work ,need apm ,keep switching shrines to diff resources depending on the situation & control the army also ,the main thing is macro ,you should have good defense since it's a slow civ ,everyone kinda says just sit in base & win not easy as it looks though ,takes time to master time ,but definitely strong in the right hands.

In team games prolly one of the best civs ,because of shrines denying your opponent from hunts & also maphack comes with it ,and map is bigger so you can kinda boom easily & has insane power spike in Indus with those daimyos.

[voigt1240]

Once they get going they never run out of steam. I feel like there is no room for mistakes. Leave them alone for a minute too long and it's a uphill battle. I'm always left with my pants down if the jap player knows how to wall properly.

Vs a jap players you are one leading the dance which leaves you open to more errors.