The Real Economic Cost of Losing a Villager (France)

[Cocaine]

From the prospective of a French player:


Lets get right down to it ladies and gents of AOE (spanning all titles but data is used for AOE3). Losing villagers due to raids sucks. Losing villagers because you misplaced them and they get shot sucks. Losing villagers due to making a forward base and then they get shot sucks. Losing villagers period sucks, and why does it suck? Because not only did you lose the investment cost of producing a villager (coureurs de bois for France at 120 food) AND they can no longer produce resource for you but most importantly you lose something that is often overlooked and forgotten but is the real hidden cost of losing a villager.. And that is what we will explore below.

This is the base gather rate of ONE courers de bois:

Hunts 1.04
Berry 0.83
Mill 0.84
Mine 0.74
Plantation 0.63

Below is the benefit of each French home city economic card you can use to increase production (bonus times base rate) :

Eco Theory 10%
Hunts 0.104
Berry 0.083
Mill 0.084
Mine 0.074
Plantation 0.063

Rum Distillery 20%
Plantation 0.126

Cigar Roller 20%
Plantation 0.126

Textile Mill 25%
Plantation 0.1575

Royal Mint 25%
Mine 0.185
Plantation 0.1575

Refrigeration 20%
Hunts 0.208
Berry 0.166
Mill 0.168

Sustainable Agriculture 15%
Mill 0.126

Food Silos 15%
Mill 0.126

Code Napoleon 10%
Hunts 0.104
Berry 0.083
Mill 0.084
Mine 0.074
Plantation 0.063

TECHNOLOGY upgrades via Mills and Plantations:

Mill Upgrade 1 15%
Mill 0.126

Mill Upgrade 2 30%
Mill 0.252

Plant 1 10%
Plantation 0.063

Plant 2 20%
Plantation 0.126

Plant 3 30%
Plantation 0.189

TECHNOLOGY upgrades via Market:
Market Food 1 10%
Hunts 0.104

Market Food 2 20%
Hunts 0.208

Market Gold 1 10%
Mine 0.074

Market Gold 2 20%
Mine 0.148

TECHNOLOGY upgrades via Capitol in Imperial Age:
Hunts 0.52
Berry 0.415
Mill 0.42
Mine 0.37
Plantation 0.315

NOW that being behind us you might still be wondering what am I trying to get at.. Well.. I'm about to take you down the rabbit hole and show you an example that will blow your mind:

Imagine that you get raided in age 2 via standard enemy raids.. You lose a coureurs de bois, or two or three but for this example lets just play with 1 for simplicity sake. Now you gotta think to yourself.. Your coureurs de bois died in age 2 lets say at minute 6.. If the game goes well in a 3v3 rush match up, you might hit your 80 coureurs de bois limit (80 is the max limit of coureurs de bois you can make as France) in about 20 minutes? And that is a fairly normal time for France in a 3v3 rush game scenario that I'm focusing on here. Okay so thats 14 minutes that the coureurs de bois that died is not alive and thus not producing resource UNTIL you finally build him again at around 20 minutes because think.. At 20 minutes if that coureurs de bois did not die, you would be finally at 80 but since he died earlier you now have 79 not 80 and thus you build that extra one to replace the one that died earlier.. I hope you understand this.

So 14 minutes lost of production. If we take the standard gather rates of coureurs de bois and over the span of 14 minutes you apply the bonuses via cards, market upgrades, building upgrades, their resource production grows. Now that you know this and understand the concept of lost resource production. Lets just focus on the standard LOWEST base rate of:

Hunts 1.04
Berry 0.83
Mill 0.84
Mine 0.74
Plantation 0.63

And lets focus on Hunts OR Mines as for the first 20 minutes of the game: So for 14 minutes of your coureurs de bois being dead, they would of produced (base rate per second times 60 seconds times 14 minutes times 1 coureurs de bois):

Hunts 1.04 X 60 X 14 = 873 Food
Mine 0.74 X60 X 14 = 621.6 Gold

There is resource production lost due to walking and or shooting, but offset by the eco upgrades we arent even considering here which are most always applied from the market and cards..

So if you lose a coureurs de bois in the first 6 minutes of the game wether its from getting raided, or lost during building a forward base, or shot during an early rush at your tc.. Or whatever. If you lose a coureurs de bois this early in the game you will therefore lose all that resource that one coureurs de bois could of produced UP UNTIL YOU FINALLY REACH 80 coureurs de bois LIMIT.. There is the key. If you take 40 minutes to reach the 80 coureurs de bois limit, then you lose out on all that time in coureurs de bois production..

So lets look at this example for your further understanding:

Imagine you lose 3 coureurs de bois in the first 7 minutes of the match and you don't reach 80 coureurs de bois until the 27th minute of the game.. You lose either 3744 food throughout this time or 2664 gold depending how you wanna look at it.

Hunts 1.04 X 60 X 20 X 3(cours)= 3744 Food
Mine 0.74 X60 X 20 X 3(cours) = 2664 Gold


This ultimately doesn't even include coureurs de bois you might lose as the game progresses, for example in the 14th minute you lose 2 more coureurs de bois after another raid, or another 2 coureurs de bois after a failed forward base is built.. So on so on. You get the point. Every-time you lose a coureurs de bois due to a raid, you lose out on a shit ton of resource until that coureurs de bois is replaced eventually in the que. That is the hidden cost of getting raided..

No cocaine was used during the thought process of this exercise

Recently in my 3v3 Deccan matches I have been accused of eco hacking.. Whatever that means I guess using moesbar for crates or villigers or whatever? Even tho that can be traced via post game charts which clearly show I don't use that shit. Anyways why is my eco so op? Because I am very careful not to lose my coureurs de bois for one, and whats more is that I heavily invest in my economy because I understand the power of a single coureurs de bois over the span of a standard 27-35 minute match I play. Not to mention other tricks you can use on Deccan like cows and native post eco upgrades which are very good (I even age with the 4 cow age up to age 2 lol thats 2000 food right there) :) I straight up convert to plantations and mills early on in the game to stop my coureurs de bois from wondering too far from the base and die due to enemy fire.. I wall heavily. Anyways.. By not losing villagers due to early fire, you can dramatically improve your economy over the spam of a standard match up Make that hamster in your brain spin and think

[Hazza54321]

I agree

[occamslightsaber]

Can you do one for the real emotional cost of losing a villager as well? Thanksh.

[SoldieR]

wha..

[Riotcoke]

You also didn't consider that cdb have 4.5 speed which changes every single rate, so your analysis is wrong

[Mr_Bramboy]

The maths are far more complicated. Each addition CDB allows you to invest more spare resources into economic upgrades. Losing one CDB at 6:00 will slow down your 10:00 TC by x seconds. Meaning each additional CDB from that second TC is delayed by x seconds. Meaning each additional CDB from that second TC will gather y fewer resources.

I've no clue how you would approach actually calculating this, but it's fairly complicated, to say the least. Thankfully, the solution is simple: don't lose villagers. The difference between a Captain and a Major (or whatever ELO that corresponds to nowadays) is the number of villagers lost vs the first 5 hussar or its equivalent.

[Astaroth]

Losing a CDB is no problem at all if you can just spawn resources or ice cream trucks if needed, just like the OP @Cocaine .

[Senor_Boe]

This is really impressive... I will be raiding france more often

[UpMySleeves]

Recently in my 3v3 Deccan matches I have been accused of eco hacking.. Whatever that means I guess using moesbar for crates or villigers or whatever?

This made me laugh, thanks for that.

[somp]

Can you do one for the real emotional cost of losing a villager as well? Thanksh.

If it's the only female villager of the civilization, saved from 6 wolves, that's basically a genocide.

[Squamiger]

Can you do one for the real emotional cost of losing a villager as well? Thanksh.

If it's the only female villager of the civilization, saved from 6 wolves, that's basically a genocide.

The cdbs are just the incels of French society though

[harcha]

You also didn't consider that cdb have 4.5 speed which changes every single rate, so your analysis is wrong

could you please explain this

[Riotcoke]

You also didn't consider that cdb have 4.5 speed which changes every single rate, so your analysis is wrong

could you please explain this

Normal Villagers are 4.0 speed whilst french vills are 4.5 speed. Each time a villager moves on a mill it doesn't gather resources so a french vill on a mill or a plantation is more efficent than it would normally seem, this is the same for chopping wood, gathering hunt etc as each time a villager walks to a new hunt or whatever it's 12.5 percent slower than a french vill. It all adds up and wouldn't surprise me if it was something like a 2 percent increase which actually would stack with every upgrade.

[harcha]

@Riotcoke but it's not relevant for the example numbers since he noted that he discounts walking time, right?

[Riotcoke]

@Riotcoke but it's not relevant for the example numbers since he noted that he discounts walking time, right?

No as he's basing the stats off how much better the French CDB are than the normal vills, which you have to account for the advantage they have in walking time. You can't argue that they're better by x amount and just assume ceteris paribus of things like walking time, in real world examples it doesn't make sense.

[Sensei]

Recently in my 3v3 Deccan matches I have been accused of eco hacking.. Whatever that means I guess using moesbar for crates or villigers or whatever?

This made me laugh, thanks for that.

Same TBH. I've seen OP spawning units on RE 3v3 Deccan. As he said easily seen by post game res gathered and free units/res stats.

[harcha]

@Riotcoke but it's not relevant for the example numbers since he noted that he discounts walking time, right?

No as he's basing the stats off how much better the French CDB are than the normal vills, which you have to account for the advantage they have in walking time. You can't argue that they're better by x amount and just assume ceteris paribus of things like walking time, in real world examples it doesn't make sense.

surely you see that the whole post just talks about france and nothing but?

[Cocaine]

Riotcoke I really appreciate your input but as Harcha stated, I am simply talking about the base gather rate per second for France only. No walking time included.. And yes, I did say not including walking time. Anyways you brought up an interesting fact for the community that I was not aware of :)

Mr_Bramboy brought up an excellent point also, that I did not even dive into because shits gets more complicated if you do :p each CDB you lose before you make it to age 3 and make more TC's is just causing you to slowing down your exponential economic growth from having that second and third TC.. Imagine because you lost 3 CDB in age 2 and that slowed down your age 3 time and therefore building another TC #2 ad TC #3 by 4 minutes... Then you got to apply 4 minutes of lost resource production from the CDB you could of had if those TC's were built 4 minutes earlier This math is now way more intense BUT yes the fact is simple.. If you lose CDB or villagers as any CIV early in the game, your loses will add up immensely.

[harcha]

overall the number in your example above is less than i expected, so i won't feel too bad losing vils.

but as france you really shouldn't lose any, at least in 1v1s, as you have better stats (hp/speed), fast age up time, always have market for coats, and a scout to be aware of enemies position and incoming angle.

[occamslightsaber]

Can you do one for the real emotional cost of losing a villager as well? Thanksh.

If it's the only female villager of the civilization, saved from 6 wolves, that's basically a genocide.

This explains why the French have some great native improvement cards. The “Nonahkees” of allied native tribes are very important to CDBs.

[princeofcarthage]

Only if such efforts were put into developing rockets... Canada too would have had space program

[Cocaine]

Only if such efforts were put into developing rockets... Canada too would have had space program

Hey we are sending a person on the next moon mission did you not hear? Because Canada contributed the Canada Arm #3 for the new station.. We contribute lol

[Cocaine]

@Donye @AndiAOE You guys wanted me to post my eco charts for France well here they are, complete. IF you want to play with it just keep adding the values together to get your desired gather rate and compare.. What I often do also on Deccan is I get the Native Eco upgrades which are substantial.

[princeofcarthage]

Only if such efforts were put into developing rockets... Canada too would have had space program

Hey we are sending a person on the next moon mission did you not hear? Because Canada contributed the Canada Arm #3 for the new station.. We contribute lol

So you are happy being a supporting actor when you could have been a protagonist... or antagonist for that matter.

[Cocaine]

Only if such efforts were put into developing rockets... Canada too would have had space program

Hey we are sending a person on the next moon mission did you not hear? Because Canada contributed the Canada Arm #3 for the new station.. We contribute lol

So you are happy being a supporting actor when you could have been a protagonist... or antagonist for that matter.

First and foremost I am an AOE3 TAD player of rank 2nd lt - Captain. Second of all, nothing else matters to me.