Rodelero vs Heavy Infantry

General forum about Age of Empires 3 DE. Please post strategy threads, recorded games, user-created content and tech support threads in their respective forum.
User avatar
Germany Rohbrot
Howdah
ECL Reigning Champs
Posts: 1789
Joined: Feb 23, 2020
ESO: Rohbrot

Re: Rodelero vs Heavy Infantry

Post by Rohbrot »

helln00 wrote:
Rohbrot wrote:
Show hidden quotes
The thread is actually about "how can we make rods more effective against HI" if you read the posts and increasing melee resist isnt a solution.
I guess I want them to be vulnerable against range units so thats just a different opinion. though if its musks that people are worried about then melee resist still matters cause u want them to charge in and force musks into melee. another thing you can do is decrease their collision box like what happened with steppe riders to allow them to slip into enemy formations and force melee combat
Even if you go in with Rods and your opponent has 30 musk, the half of them will still fire (except you are splitting manually all your rods that the musks have to melee, what is unrealistic) a attack buff like 1+ point would do better as buff. Still i think it isnt really necessary.
Spain pain train is real
User avatar
Argentina Jotunir
Howdah
Posts: 1367
Joined: Mar 31, 2020
Location: Argentina

Re: Rodelero vs Heavy Infantry

Post by Jotunir »

Rohbrot wrote:
helln00 wrote:
Show hidden quotes
I guess I want them to be vulnerable against range units so thats just a different opinion. though if its musks that people are worried about then melee resist still matters cause u want them to charge in and force musks into melee. another thing you can do is decrease their collision box like what happened with steppe riders to allow them to slip into enemy formations and force melee combat
Even if you go in with Rods and your opponent has 30 musk, the half of them will still fire (except you are splitting manually all your rods that the musks have to melee, what is unrealistic) a attack buff like 1+ point would do better as buff. Still i think it isnt really necessary.
The only way Rodeleros could win versus Musketeers is with a human wave attack, which is an extremely dangerous and costly tactic in most cases. It is imperative for them to charge into the enemy line in the shortest time and in the greatest numbers possible if they wish to succeed. The point of this tactic is that a sufficient mass of them can be preserved when they reach melee range so they can overwhelm the enemy. Basically having balls of steel and expecting heavy losses is the way to go.
Australia Hazza54321
Pro Player
Winter Champion 2020 x2Donator 01
Posts: 8049
Joined: May 4, 2015
ESO: PrinceofBabu

Re: Rodelero vs Heavy Infantry

  • Quote

Post by Hazza54321 »

Cant believe i have to explain this basic shit but i guess i do because people dont know how the civ works.
Spanish units are very hard counters and they each compliment each other. Buffing rods vs heavy inf just gives them way too much versatility as they would do well vs almost every other unit in the game with 6 speed.
It would be the same as buffing lancers vs hand cav because they lose to hand cav THATS SUPPOSED TO BE THE CASE because they beat heavy inf and ranged inf.

Spain has been buffed to oblivion and people still complain when its clearly a top civ. Just learn the civ if you wanna make it work
France Kaiserklein
Pro Player
Posts: 10278
Joined: Jun 6, 2015
Location: Paris
GameRanger ID: 5529322

Re: Rodelero vs Heavy Infantry

Post by Kaiserklein »

Just ignore the thread I think, no one in their right mind will buff rods
Image
Image
Image
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
User avatar
Latvia harcha
Gendarme
Posts: 5136
Joined: Jul 2, 2015
ESO: hatamoto_samurai

Re: Rodelero vs Heavy Infantry

  • Quote

Post by harcha »

There is a pattern to these threads. Some silly suggestion > other not so competitive players chime in while med-high level players cba > high level player comes it to shoot the bad idea down to stop it from spreading.
I've seen this multiple times on this forum and a couple of times on the official forum too. Unfortunately good players seem to not visit that place enough, with good reason.
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
User avatar
Great Britain chris1089
Retired Contributor
Posts: 2651
Joined: Feb 11, 2017
ESO: chris1089

Re: Rodelero vs Heavy Infantry

  • Quote

Post by chris1089 »

harcha wrote:There is a pattern to these threads. Some silly suggestion > other not so competitive players chime in while med-high level players cba > high level player comes it to shoot the bad idea down to stop it from spreading.
I've seen this multiple times on this forum and a couple of times on the official forum too. Unfortunately good players seem to not visit that place enough, with good reason.
I'm not even a top player and I find the nooby rubbish on there ridiculously frustrating. It's far worse than on ESOC, and there are fewer sane voices. Would be nice to have a place to discuss mod ideas rather than mixing many outlandish suggestions with balance ideas.
Vietnam duckzilla
Jaeger
Posts: 2497
Joined: Jun 26, 2016

Re: Rodelero vs Heavy Infantry

Post by duckzilla »

harcha wrote:There is a pattern to these threads. Some silly suggestion > other not so competitive players chime in while med-high level players cba > high level player comes it to shoot the bad idea down to stop it from spreading.
I've seen this multiple times on this forum and a couple of times on the official forum too. Unfortunately good players seem to not visit that place enough, with good reason.
Don't forget the casual troll posts that fuel the fire
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.

Beati pauperes spiritu.
User avatar
Latvia harcha
Gendarme
Posts: 5136
Joined: Jul 2, 2015
ESO: hatamoto_samurai

Re: Rodelero vs Heavy Infantry

Post by harcha »

duckzilla wrote:
harcha wrote:There is a pattern to these threads. Some silly suggestion > other not so competitive players chime in while med-high level players cba > high level player comes it to shoot the bad idea down to stop it from spreading.
I've seen this multiple times on this forum and a couple of times on the official forum too. Unfortunately good players seem to not visit that place enough, with good reason.
Don't forget the casual troll posts that fuel the fire
i didn't even consider the possibility of you calling me out
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
No Flag deleted_user
Ninja
Posts: 14364
Joined: Mar 26, 2015

Re: Rodelero vs Heavy Infantry

Post by deleted_user »

infinite 1% speed upgrade card
User avatar
Great Britain chris1089
Retired Contributor
Posts: 2651
Joined: Feb 11, 2017
ESO: chris1089

Re: Rodelero vs Heavy Infantry

Post by chris1089 »

deleted_user wrote:infinite 1% speed upgrade card
Would this act on the base stats or on the currrent stats? I can imagine using such a card against treaty noobs for some fun if the latter.
No Flag deleted_user
Ninja
Posts: 14364
Joined: Mar 26, 2015

Re: Rodelero vs Heavy Infantry

Post by deleted_user »

base like every upgrade in the game
User avatar
Germany Rohbrot
Howdah
ECL Reigning Champs
Posts: 1789
Joined: Feb 23, 2020
ESO: Rohbrot

Re: Rodelero vs Heavy Infantry

Post by Rohbrot »

deleted_user wrote:infinite 1% speed upgrade card
Possibly the best idea of a card after advanced mill.
Spain pain train is real
User avatar
Latvia harcha
Gendarme
Posts: 5136
Joined: Jul 2, 2015
ESO: hatamoto_samurai

Re: Rodelero vs Heavy Infantry

Post by harcha »

i wanted to continue the discussion on callens suggestion but i refrained. let's end this thread
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
User avatar
Germany Rohbrot
Howdah
ECL Reigning Champs
Posts: 1789
Joined: Feb 23, 2020
ESO: Rohbrot

Re: Rodelero vs Heavy Infantry

Post by Rohbrot »

chris1089 wrote:
deleted_user wrote:infinite 1% speed upgrade card
Would this act on the base stats or on the currrent stats? I can imagine using such a card against treaty noobs for some fun if the latter.
You are so heartless :devil:
Spain pain train is real
User avatar
Germany Rohbrot
Howdah
ECL Reigning Champs
Posts: 1789
Joined: Feb 23, 2020
ESO: Rohbrot

Re: Rodelero vs Heavy Infantry

Post by Rohbrot »

harcha wrote:i wanted to continue the discussion on callens suggestion but i refrained. let's end this thread
Let's continue till the thread gets locked tbh.
Spain pain train is real
Spain Efraín
Skirmisher
Posts: 104
Joined: Jun 9, 2020
ESO: Efraín

Re: Rodelero vs Heavy Infantry

Post by Efraín »

Hazza54321 wrote:Cant believe i have to explain this basic shit but i guess i do because people dont know how the civ works.
Spanish units are very hard counters and they each compliment each other. Buffing rods vs heavy inf just gives them way too much versatility as they would do well vs almost every other unit in the game with 6 speed.
It would be the same as buffing lancers vs hand cav because they lose to hand cav THATS SUPPOSED TO BE THE CASE because they beat heavy inf and ranged inf.

Spain has been buffed to oblivion and people still complain when its clearly a top civ. Just learn the civ if you wanna make it work
Don't you really think that the rodelero's hp (we're not talking about the bonus anymore because it's more than debated) is slightly low?

Be honest, it seems a little weak in that regard for the cost.

By the way, Spain since the beta of the DE has been suffering from nerfs. There are some examples.
Australia Hazza54321
Pro Player
Winter Champion 2020 x2Donator 01
Posts: 8049
Joined: May 4, 2015
ESO: PrinceofBabu

Re: Rodelero vs Heavy Infantry

Post by Hazza54321 »

Someone else take over, id rather watch grass grow or talk to a wall
User avatar
Finland princeofkabul
Pro Player
NWC LAN Top 8EPL Reigning Champs
Posts: 2372
Joined: Feb 28, 2015
ESO: Princeofkabul
Location: In retirement home with Sam and Vic

Re: Rodelero vs Heavy Infantry

Post by princeofkabul »

:'D
Chairman of Washed Up clan
Leader of the Shady Swedes
Team Manager of the Blockhouse Boomers
User avatar
Tokelau jesus3
Jaeger
Posts: 2353
Joined: Aug 5, 2016

Re: Rodelero vs Heavy Infantry

Post by jesus3 »

Controversial opinion: OP is just Rojo's second account and Bramboy ignored it and let it happen bc he wants to fuel disharmony as the evil shadow dictator he is :devilrazz:
Image
User avatar
France chronique
Advanced Player
Posts: 2060
Joined: Jul 4, 2015
ESO: poissondu44
Location: France

Re: Rodelero vs Heavy Infantry

Post by chronique »

Efraín wrote:
Don't you really think that the rodelero's hp (we're not talking about the bonus anymore because it's more than debated) is slightly low?

Be honest, it seems a little weak in that regard for the cost.

By the way, Spain since the beta of the DE has been suffering from nerfs. There are some examples.
Rods is not weak at all. Rods alone are not super good but in mass they counter cav a way more efficiently than dragoon, and with lancer you can dismantle a big mass of skirm/goon as your lancer destroy skirm and rods destroy goon, that's mean he must sacrifice all of its skirm just to not lose his whole army. How do you counter rods when your skirms are usless because you can't protec them from lancer?

Also, spain received a ton of buff from RE, i can't memorise all of them, and they received buff from EP too (unnecessary buff imo). This is the most buffed civ from RE to DE by far
User avatar
India Challenger_Marco
ESOC Media Team
Posts: 2689
Joined: Nov 23, 2015
ESO: challenger_marco

Re: Rodelero vs Heavy Infantry

Post by Challenger_Marco »

Lol if you want to give multi to HI as rods then you are playing Malta v2 ,go play WOL and get yourself experienced xD (meant to say broken )
:nwc:
Spain Efraín
Skirmisher
Posts: 104
Joined: Jun 9, 2020
ESO: Efraín

Re: Rodelero vs Heavy Infantry

Post by Efraín »

chronique wrote:
Efraín wrote:
Don't you really think that the rodelero's hp (we're not talking about the bonus anymore because it's more than debated) is slightly low?

Be honest, it seems a little weak in that regard for the cost.

By the way, Spain since the beta of the DE has been suffering from nerfs. There are some examples.
Rods is not weak at all. Rods alone are not super good but in mass they counter cav a way more efficiently than dragoon, and with lancer you can dismantle a big mass of skirm/goon as your lancer destroy skirm and rods destroy goon, that's mean he must sacrifice all of its skirm just to not lose his whole army. How do you counter rods when your skirms are usless because you can't protec them from lancer?

Also, spain received a ton of buff from RE, i can't memorise all of them, and they received buff from EP too (unnecessary buff imo). This is the most buffed civ from RE to DE by far
I understand your point, Mr. Poisson.

I still think that the way the rodelero was designed was wrong, but that is my personal opinion.

Spain was the worst overrall civ in the game, it received buffs of course, they also backed down with others in the DE (like Caballeros) and we can also mention that it has one of the worst economies in the game at the moment (they have only 1-¿2? attacks in his ff), also counting that it is very weak at age two and it has a predictable archaic FI.

For all that, although I think it is not a bad civ today, but it is not comparable to France, Germany, Japan, Great Britain or others with a superior economy.
User avatar
France chronique
Advanced Player
Posts: 2060
Joined: Jul 4, 2015
ESO: poissondu44
Location: France

Re: Rodelero vs Heavy Infantry

Post by chronique »

Caballero was buffed from RE and spain eco is at the same level as german or france with spanish gold, can be better with atp. Also their mid forteress are super god like with skirm/rods/lancer (which is supperior to what france can do) and in late game you have unction, what do you want ^^. Spain have never been as strong as they are, the question is, are you not biased toward the civ you play the most?
User avatar
Germany Rohbrot
Howdah
ECL Reigning Champs
Posts: 1789
Joined: Feb 23, 2020
ESO: Rohbrot

Re: Rodelero vs Heavy Infantry

Post by Rohbrot »

Spain had never a great economy compared to other civs, but they benefit from their cp curve and possibility of ATP/Revolt/FI to win games. You wont win any Age2 game vs any civ (if its not an unscouted lame rush) vs civs which arent crap either in Age2. @chronique , you are saying Rod/Lancers melt skirm/goon, but you forgot to mention that a constant Lancer batch of 5 is not possible with a constant batch of 5 Rods, before like 10-11 mins and that when you had a shipment or time to send 1000k wood to build a stable, vet up rods, houses and a possible tp(if it got destroyed or if u wanna build a second one). Overall, i think people still dont know how efficient it is to counter rod/lancer with any RI that can get CIR and a goon-type unit that can get carolean.
Spain pain train is real
User avatar
France chronique
Advanced Player
Posts: 2060
Joined: Jul 4, 2015
ESO: poissondu44
Location: France

Re: Rodelero vs Heavy Infantry

Post by chronique »

1) SG = 10 vills, so you have a great eco
2) you don't need to train any lancer before 15 min, you need a full skirm/rods prod from two rax. When you have 30 skirm and 50 rods, then you can start the lancer prod.
3) CIR is fun until you have 20 lancer with caba + cc charging your stuff, and then your skirms become usless ^^. Lancer with cc + caba deal 92 damage at skirms, this is more than most of any imperial cav, and nothing your goon can do because rods chasing them.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

Which top 10 players do you wish to see listed?

All-time

Active last two weeks

Active last month

Supremacy

Treaty

Official

ESOC Patch

Treaty Patch

1v1 Elo

2v2 Elo

3v3 Elo

Power Rating

Which streams do you wish to see listed?

Twitch

Age of Empires III

Age of Empires IV