Update 13088

[gibson]

Probably cause swede is bottom tier now or close to it at least?

[aaryngend]

Sweden have been nerfed to the shitter though

Calling it now: the removal of bonus damage to ranged light cavalry for Caroleans will be taken back soon. In super-late game, Caroleans also have -2 range, will be interesting to see how they will fair now.
Sweden got a bit overnerfed if I could give a first impression ujst by the looks of it.
However, their early aggresion is much stronger now, with Caroleans having 2 more base range to start with in Comemrce Age + having the 3 Huss shipment in their inventory.

[Jets]

They have jaegers.

[Kawapasaka]

Sweden have been nerfed to the shitter though

Calling it now: the removal of bonus damage to ranged light cavalry for Caroleans will be taken back soon.

Why do you think that? It's a great change.

[aaryngend]

They have jaegers.

Which only cost coin and good luck spamming them with nerfed Torps. I just saw Mitoe using them quite effectively but time will tell if this can make up for the other nerfs.

[helln00]

They have jaegers.

Which only cost coin and good luck spamming them with nerfed Torps. I just saw Mitoe using them quite effectively but time will tell if this can make up for the other nerfs.

I don't think u ever want mercs to be spamable. Considering they have 2 pretty powerful upgrade, u want it to be more a resilient part of the army that survives engagements. getting just 10 jeagers out is probably enough for age 3

[aaryngend]

They have jaegers.

Which only cost coin and good luck spamming them with nerfed Torps. I just saw Mitoe using them quite effectively but time will tell if this can make up for the other nerfs.

I don't think u ever want mercs to be spamable. Considering they have 2 pretty powerful upgrade, u want it to be more a resilient part of the army that survives engagements. getting just 10 jeagers out is probably enough for age 3

40% ranged resist is OP Have you ever seen 40 Skirmishers vs 40 Jaegers?
They get cucked like there's no tomorrow.
Sadly, army compositions like that don't happen in real games.
I'd be happy if in midgame, Sweden could have 20% of their army as either Black Riders or Jaegers. Need something to jump into the fray now that Caroleans aren't OP powerhouses anymore.

[arivus]

Starting wood is increased by 100, torps cost in increased to 125. Way I see it Swedes just need to chop 100 wood more to build the usual 20 torps in exchange for easier TP start.

[comradecommissar]

I think the Sweden changes are definitely an overreaction. A nerf to Engelsburg Ironworks and the starting crates change plus the addition of 3 huss (and removal of 8 pike) would have been just fine. There was no need to nerf Caroleans, or nerf Blueberries to make the card utterly useless.

[princeofkabul]

Carolean aren’t even op late game, they lose hard to cir skirms and do poorly vs heavy cav when compared to other musk. They’re just good mid game when Swede can spam 100 of them

How come they werent op in lategame? The ranged multiplier against both heavy and light cavalry is a big deal or did I miss something? Not to even mention this absurd range for a musketeer unit.

I think swedes got overnerfed hard and is probably one of the weakest civs but we'll see how the merc play will work, and is it enough to compensate these nerfs at all.

[comradecommissar]

"Disabled the use of several fog-of-war functions during multiplayer games to prevent exploitation."

On another note, Im really hoping this addresses the maphack @Kaiserklein picked up on.

[FellFresse]

Sweden fast plantation new op meta. Civ got nerfed pretty hard. Think forcing them to actually have more than 15 vills is the right way, therefore it should also have age2 vill shipments. No idea how people think the civ is able to afford and produce mercs with the engelsberg nerf on top. You have weaker torp boom plus the torps gather much less ressources. You'll basically sit in your base with torps around your mines and also having to gather coin from them. Once they run out you're pretty fucked. Carolean range nerf is fine but it has to be considered that Sweden lacks any kind of skrm type, so it's very hard to deal with skrm/goon composition. It s just not possible and efficient to build Jäger for your composition besides the 1 shipment. Also the crate change doesn't make much sense since now you'll age later and have even harder time dealing with colonial push.
Overall I like the nerf, BB and strong Caroleans were just stupid and made the civ way too easy and one dimensional to play. Don't like all specific changes but I guess it's hard to balance a civ which is quite poorly designed. Just give them skrms or any light inf..

[onfiregun17]

I would like to point out that you can still turn your units into gates with this patch. I shall eagerly await Garja to update the Spain FI with a gate variant.

[Hazza54321]

RIP my man @Aussie_Drongo you shall be dearly missed

[Jotunir]

Not to even mention this absurd range for a musketeer unit.

The irony is that in real life they tried to fire at point-blank range.

[I_HaRRiiSoN_I]

I have to say it must be pretty hard to kind of overhaul a civ so credit where credit is due in the steps they are taking.
If sweden are still poor then just given them 6 vills to start the game is probably next logical step or a 4 vill card age 2

[Astaroth]

It's nice if Swedes get more options with mercs, but overnerfing them is sad.

Generally, I dislike the trend of nerfing civs into the ground that aren't even OP but that people "dislike", such as Swedes or Incas (last patch), while actually really strong civs like France or Germany that we see in tourneys all the time are left untouched.

[Hazza54321]

I have to say it must be pretty hard to kind of overhaul a civ so credit where credit is due in the steps they are taking.
If sweden are still poor then just given them 6 vills to start the game is probably next logical step or a 4 vill card age 2

If all else fails then standardise them right?

[deleted_user]

I mean...

[Jotunir]

I have to say it must be pretty hard to kind of overhaul a civ so credit where credit is due in the steps they are taking.
If sweden are still poor then just given them 6 vills to start the game is probably next logical step or a 4 vill card age 2

If all else fails then standardise them right?

You can always erase them
(I like Sweden, for the record)

[Scroogie]

No obscured unit alpha :(

I found a workaround to this. Assuming you mean how you can’t see things through buildings. Start a skirmish ai game. Then change shadows to any other setting and apply it. Then change it back to what it was. You should be able to see things through buildings now.

However this triggers another bug causing xp numbers to not show for that game which is why you do it in skirmish mode (unless you don’t care about xp numbers) and also you have to do this every time you reboot the game.

Thank you but unfortunately afaik this only fixes it for some people, in my case it didnt work.

[princeofcarthage]

Just like EP standardized all civs

[Peachrocks]

No obscured unit alpha :(

I found a workaround to this. Assuming you mean how you can’t see things through buildings. Start a skirmish ai game. Then change shadows to any other setting and apply it. Then change it back to what it was. You should be able to see things through buildings now.

However this triggers another bug causing xp numbers to not show for that game which is why you do it in skirmish mode (unless you don’t care about xp numbers) and also you have to do this every time you reboot the game.

Thank you but unfortunately afaik this only fixes it for some people, in my case it didnt work.

Sigh... AoE3 BE (Bugged Edition) strikes again. Sorry to hear that. It'd be nice if the game worked. I figured you'd have known about this but decided to share it.

It's nice if Swedes get more options with mercs, but overnerfing them is sad.

Generally, I dislike the trend of nerfing civs into the ground that aren't even OP but that people "dislike", such as Swedes or Incas (last patch), while actually really strong civs like France or Germany that we see in tourneys all the time are left untouched.

Honestly yeah though to be fair I think it was justified. The general 'house factory' nonsense needs to go or at least have lesser payoffs. Inca could definitely use Tambos instead with the xp trickle card to have a more aggressive map based playstyle which would be very interesting, especially with natives and WC aura, but it doesn't seem viable right now.

Just the whole standardising when the standard itself could be argued as being problematic and the whole nature of certain unit compositions in general being an issue to the point where you know what units someone's going to build way ahead of time and can't take advantage of it because units don't efficiently counter each other, but that's a whole other argument. I mean Sweden got addressed in this area with the Carolean 'rework' but I know many players would be up in arms if certain other 'I always do this' compositions, were hit in a similar fashion.

[Squamiger]

Swede changes look like they are taking the civ in the right direction, how they were originally intended to be played: as a fast, aggressive rushing civ. Honestly if it were me I would just remove torp gathering entirely and give them 5-4 villie shipments and lots of good age 2 shipments. They would just be like Spain but instead of xp bonus their bonus would be the easy access to mercs in age 3.

too bad about China, yea. I wonder if the civ hasn't received much attention because I think its still quite popular among the lower ELO players, so it probably has a pretty decent winrate still. I wonder if the DE team has data about the winrates of all the civs across different ELO brackets. I'd be very curious to see that data.

[Luciofrancosi]

Sweden same OP as before.

Only real nerf is torp +10 wood, this doesn't affect too much, full build for torps cost not 200w more than before. Greedy boom power didn't nerf too much.
Torps still controlling the map, cheap cost for bonus, hard to be destroyed with less cost being killed a vil, etc.

Carolean just became a bit like normal musk, OP range-resist didn't change, got boost in age2 to cover their weakness.

I don't know why many people said RIP to Sweden?

Because now just going full caroleans+canons isn't as viable as caroleans no longer counter ranged cavalry, that is a huge nerf to the unit. Also torps have been nerfed.
I personally think they are fine and probably now can be played as the devs intended.