Buff China, Aztecs and Sweeden a bit.

[Efraín]

The Chinese and the Swedes deserve a buff to be able to compete better in second age.

The cuts to Sweden, despite having a large heavy infantry and brutal economy, were excessive and failed to make it competitive enough.

The Chinese need a little more strength in second age (since they have a vulnerable and late ff), for one thing it is that main China is not seen much.

The Aztecs are hopeless: D.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Agreed but you should say that in the official forum.

[chronique]

And russia and dutch

[Zanerre]

the 200w 150g for up units in vet was good thing on EP for russian srsly

Maybe too op on EP but I think it's fair on DE

[helln00]

tbh for china age 2, I dont think you need to do much, i think even just cheaper castles or like an age up with a castle rickshaw is enough. Its defensive, it allows for age 2 forwards with Mongolian army.

Other crazy buff ideas would be to buff mongolian scourge ( 10% attack along with the multipliers) and or moving beiyang army to age 2 - keeping the free vet upgrade but send less units

[Le Hussard sur le toit]

The suggestion I would make :
1) Russia: cheaper veteran upgrades to help their transition to fortress.
2) Dutch: logistician cost decrease to 800f might just make it useful against colonial civs. I really like the suggestion of a free envoy at each age as it is the kind of buff that really helps skilled players without risking making a civ to strong.
3) China: serious buff to all colonial wonders except the summer palace.
4) Sweden: bring back the old blueberry with a slight nerf to the gather rate and food total of the blueberry bush. If really needed, a slight buff to the cost of their mercenaries (like 5%).
5) Aztecs: Not a clue.

[chris1089]

Are warrior priest 0 pop on DE?
Aztec are quite slow and inflexible, idk how you can actually buff them in a good way. Also haven't played much Aztec since EP6.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Aztec +10 hp to coyotes, and the civ would still be in the lower tiers.

[ssaa22]

Before buffing them, you need to discuss their strengths. If their strength is powerful, they can be buffed and evaluated as OP.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Well coyotes are just trash lol

[Le Hussard sur le toit]

I would probably buff JKP speed and cost in exchange for some nerfs to their late game ups (because they are already good in treaty) and I'd do something to bring back the old FI (a buff to skull knight production rate ?).

[Garja]

Aztecs are actually a good civ. It's just that when it comes to Ports or Fre those civs got undeservedly buffed.
And again, you have to grind games with Aztecs. Can't just do a cookie cutter strat and expect to win easy (even tho with buffs it gets closer to that).
There are ways to buff the civ of course. The easiest and probably most definitive way would be to give +2 range to maces and some sort of eco buff like a sort of steel traps tech or some farm gathering enhancement.

[Le Hussard sur le toit]

Garja has a point in that I'd look at nerfing top civ before than buffing bottom civ to avoid power creep.

[[Armag] diarouga]

Garja has a point in that I'd look at nerfing top civ before than buffing bottom civ to avoid power creep.

It's easier to buff civs than to nerf civs.
Like what civ are you going to nerf ? You'd need to nerf like 7-8 civs, and people would complain about it + Microsoft would surely fuck up and overnerf some civs.
When you have 4-5 bad civs and 11-12 balanced civs, it makes more sense to buff the underpowered civ than to nerf all the good civs.

[chronique]

4) Sweden: bring back the old blueberry with a slight nerf to the gather rate and food total of the blueberry bush. If really needed, a slight buff to the cost of their mercenaries (like 5%)

Na really, this kind of card allows to much the retard turtle style, i mean i am not gona play 25 min of TM each time i play against drongo

[Le Hussard sur le toit]

Garja has a point in that I'd look at nerfing top civ before than buffing bottom civ to avoid power creep.

It's easier to buff civs than to nerf civs.
Like what civ are you going to nerf ? You'd need to nerf like 7-8 civs, and people would complain about it + Microsoft would surely fuck up and overnerf some civs.
When you have 4-5 bad civs and 11-12 balanced civs, it makes more sense to buff the underpowered civ than to nerf all the good civs.

I also agree with that obviously.

[Garja]

Garja has a point in that I'd look at nerfing top civ before than buffing bottom civ to avoid power creep.

It's easier to buff civs than to nerf civs.
Like what civ are you going to nerf ? You'd need to nerf like 7-8 civs, and people would complain about it + Microsoft would surely fuck up and overnerf some civs.
When you have 4-5 bad civs and 11-12 balanced civs, it makes more sense to buff the underpowered civ than to nerf all the good civs.

Nah just nerf Fre starting crates and Port 5% food. That would make a favor to any civ really. Current pool is balanced for the most part. Just Fre and Ports have easy time playing while also being slightly better (at least French they are).

[[Armag] diarouga]

Fre and Port aren't really stronger than Germany, Brit, Japan and Spain, you'd need to nerf these civs too. Besides Port would be dogshit without 5% food.

[deleted_user]

dominion play with sweden is looking really strong right now (it's hard to balance around such an intangible as shipment points everywhere on the map), and blueberries is still very viable and gives a great boom tbh -- merc supplementation was buffed with every merc being able to be trained in military buildings after being sent

[Garja]

Dominion is the 4 torp card? I don't see it being better than 700w, considering that as swedes you really want to delay the military buildings if possible and obviously that's impossible with that card.

[deleted_user]

and it gives every torp, already built or otherwise, the ability to receive shipments -- that's what makes it good. Sweden has pikes, bows, leather cannons, 3 huss, and fusiliers to ship in age 2, anywhere on the map at any time.

[Le Hussard sur le toit]

You also save building time, walking time, you get shipments points everywhere, and on top of that +30% hp for your torps and they can gather crates so you will also save a handful of vs each time you send crates.

[Garja]

I didn't know about that. It's a bit retarded I must say, even tho sneaking the wagon around the map isnt' exactly easy.

[yurashic]

EP was in the process of balancing for many years, and after those changes were all copied to DE, why would we change anything?

[Luciofrancosi]

The suggestion I would make :
2) Dutch: logistician cost decrease to 800f might just make it useful against colonial civs. I really like the suggestion of a free envoy at each age as it is the kind of buff that really helps skilled players without risking making a civ to strong.

I like that, although I think maybe a better idea that came out on that topic would be to allow the explorer to train envoys.