Update 14825
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Re: Update 14825
Wait caroleans have 2.5 rof? So they're just as good as musks in musk wars, and better at a lot of other things?
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
Re: Update 14825
I can't hide my surprise at the fact that even top-notch players overlooked it. If they succeed in engaging without any interference, they have a much more powerful DPS than ordinary musketeer. It's like LB.Kaiserklein wrote:Wait caroleans have 2.5 rof? So they're just as good as musks in musk wars, and better at a lot of other things?
The text may be awkward using a translator, But I hope we can talk a lot about good things. GG
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Re: Update 14825
They used to have 2 rofKaiserklein wrote:Wait caroleans have 2.5 rof? So they're just as good as musks in musk wars, and better at a lot of other things?
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Re: Update 14825
Well they change caroleans every patch so I can't be bothered to check the statsssaa22 wrote:I can't hide my surprise at the fact that even top-notch players overlooked it. If they succeed in engaging without any interference, they have a much more powerful DPS than ordinary musketeer. It's like LB.Kaiserklein wrote:Wait caroleans have 2.5 rof? So they're just as good as musks in musk wars, and better at a lot of other things?
They don't seem to have higher DPS though. I think it's roughly the same as a normal musk
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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Re: Update 14825
Ofc yeah, back when people said they were trash with "14 attack" haha. I just thought they were changed to 3 rof.Hazza54321 wrote:They used to have 2 rofKaiserklein wrote:Wait caroleans have 2.5 rof? So they're just as good as musks in musk wars, and better at a lot of other things?
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
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- Howdah
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Re: Update 14825
Before ups, 114/15 for caroleans, 120/15 for ashis, 115/15 for musks, 125/15 for sepoys, 100/15 for jans. Ashis and sepoys deal significantly more damage, but musks are basically the same.Kaiserklein wrote:Well they change caroleans every patch so I can't be bothered to check the statsssaa22 wrote:I can't hide my surprise at the fact that even top-notch players overlooked it. If they succeed in engaging without any interference, they have a much more powerful DPS than ordinary musketeer. It's like LB.Kaiserklein wrote:Wait caroleans have 2.5 rof? So they're just as good as musks in musk wars, and better at a lot of other things?
They don't seem to have higher DPS though. I think it's roughly the same as a normal musk
Caroleans sucks early on vs cav though.
ESOC : came for the game, stayed for the drama.
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Re: Update 14825
Well ashis (and maybe sepoys too) don't deal more damage if you take into account their higher cost.
Idk that unupped caroleans "suck" vs cav. Sure they deal roughly half the melee damage to cav compared to musks, but
1) they deal 50% more damage at range
2) they have 30% melee resist. That's roughly 15% more hp in melee than musks
3) they're faster which is always nice vs cav
Basically yeah cav can catch small groups of caroleans and trade a bit better than vs musks. But the critical mass you need to kite and one shoot a huss is way smaller, and you can kite better with this unit especially if you abuse the melee thing. In mass I'd argue that caroleans are just a superior anti cav, because you often end up shooting at cav, they won't just run their cav in your melee musks.
Idk that unupped caroleans "suck" vs cav. Sure they deal roughly half the melee damage to cav compared to musks, but
1) they deal 50% more damage at range
2) they have 30% melee resist. That's roughly 15% more hp in melee than musks
3) they're faster which is always nice vs cav
Basically yeah cav can catch small groups of caroleans and trade a bit better than vs musks. But the critical mass you need to kite and one shoot a huss is way smaller, and you can kite better with this unit especially if you abuse the melee thing. In mass I'd argue that caroleans are just a superior anti cav, because you often end up shooting at cav, they won't just run their cav in your melee musks.
LoOk_tOm wrote:I have something in particular against Kaisar (GERMANY NOOB mercenary LAMME FOREVER) And the other people (noobs) like suck kaiser ... just this ..
- princeofkabul
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Re: Update 14825
Didnt they remove multipliers against cav for caros? Or was it just light cav and heavy melee cav bonuses were left untouched? I fucking can't keep up with these updates anymore.Kaiserklein wrote:Well ashis (and maybe sepoys too) don't deal more damage if you take into account their higher cost.
Idk that unupped caroleans "suck" vs cav. Sure they deal roughly half the melee damage to cav compared to musks, but
1) they deal 50% more damage at range
2) they have 30% melee resist. That's roughly 15% more hp in melee than musks
3) they're faster which is always nice vs cav
Basically yeah cav can catch small groups of caroleans and trade a bit better than vs musks. But the critical mass you need to kite and one shoot a huss is way smaller, and you can kite better with this unit especially if you abuse the melee thing. In mass I'd argue that caroleans are just a superior anti cav, because you often end up shooting at cav, they won't just run their cav in your melee musks.
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- harcha
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Re: Update 14825
Yeah they removed multi vs light ranged cav. So now goons work pretty damn well vs the stupid "double your eco musk hus right click".
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Re: Update 14825
They slightly nerfed the multiplier vs hand cav and removed the one against ranged cav altogether.princeofkabul wrote:Didnt they remove multipliers against cav for caros? Or was it just light cav and heavy melee cav bonuses were left untouched? I fucking can't keep up with these updates anymore.
- Aussie_Drongo
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Re: Update 14825
But then we just standardise them and make them the same as every other musketeer, I think its best to avoid every civ having the British musketeer with a different skin.firstaim wrote:Carolean Speed 4.25>4Aussie_Drongo wrote:Main issue is that every musket outmatches them in age 2 (un-upgraded and especially upgraded), obviously we can't look at them in a vacuum, as Swedes have leather cannon, but if a cost increase or even a higher rate of coin to food, I suspect they trade way to poorly to even bother considering. I think they are fine as they are, and may need a bit of a nerf in late game but in the most recent patch I've only got to age 3 once, let alone age 4.
Resistance 0.30>0.20
Range attack 19>24
Remove multiplier to cav x1.5
may be some other small adjustment also can be applied.
I think it's fine where it is currently, only changes need to occur are to cards IMO, Snaplock 3 range -> 2 range, and Svea lifeguard 30% melee resist -> 20% ranged resist.
It seems goons work well vs everything Sweden has right now, and not just the Swede who is fortunate enough to play against a person who does not punish / counter the "8 minute torp boom with 3 cards into military production"harcha wrote:Yeah they removed multi vs light ranged cav. So now goons work pretty damn well vs the stupid "double your eco musk hus right click".
- Jets
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Re: Update 14825
Actually, they suck because they don't fulfill their job as other musk's do, which is do decent against most units. They suck vs cav, they're weaker than other musk's, they get outdamaged by other musk's. Their stats doesn't represent their cost, and the range card and multipliers it's just a weird combination for a HI unit.Aussie_Drongo wrote: But then we just standardise them and make them the same as every other musketeer, I think its best to avoid every civ having the British musketeer with a different skin.
I think it's fine where it is currently, only changes need to occur are to cards IMO, Snaplock 3 range -> 2 range, and Svea lifeguard 30% melee resist -> 20% ranged resist.
There are already different types of infantry (HI, skirms, archers, grenadiers, pikes, shock infantry). There's no point on giving a HI unit some ranged multipliers when their job is to tank cav attacks, rather than snipe them down.
Their numbers are weird too, as the post above says, most of them should be standardized, except the 30MR, also the caro charge should be unlocked, thus giving the inicial purpose to the unit as it was intended in the first place. Also, their stats can be upgraded easily with the advanced arsenal.
Give them melee multipliers as any other musketeer, given them also a 1.25 -1.5 melee multiplier vs heavy infantry to complement their charge mechanic. Similar to the jaguar prowler knight.
Standard musketeers work because they're the ideal unit designed for the aoe3 system, take a look at janissaries, ashigarus and even red coat musketeers.
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- Howdah
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Re: Update 14825
Caroleans are great as they are. The range resist card should be nerfed, and with their current stats they could go back to the original charge mechanic (ie, different speed/stats in melee mode). At least they should make the charge ability a unit by unit ability rather than a global thing.
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- Jets
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Re: Update 14825
Armor changes shouldn't exist, devs are trying so hard to innovate with this unit that the whole idea has changed and twisted.
+10% MR, x1.5 HI multiplier, melee charge musketeer seems already fine as a concept, why go further with ranged stats, ranged cards, and armor changes? The lack of goons has turned the caroleans into some weird pokemon evolution unit, from weak musketeer to unmounted goon-like.
+10% MR, x1.5 HI multiplier, melee charge musketeer seems already fine as a concept, why go further with ranged stats, ranged cards, and armor changes? The lack of goons has turned the caroleans into some weird pokemon evolution unit, from weak musketeer to unmounted goon-like.
Re: Update 14825
I agree that's not good to have all same musketeer with different skin, but from experience of tomahawk/Nat tomahawk (why ES didn't use NAT tomahawk same characteristic as Haud regular unit) and Ashi with 4.5 speed, more specific abilities will cause more problems to the balance, no matter it is good or bad.Aussie_Drongo wrote: But then we just standardise them and make them the same as every other musketeer, I think its best to avoid every civ having the British musketeer with a different skin.
I think it's fine where it is currently, only changes need to occur are to cards IMO, Snaplock 3 range -> 2 range, and Svea lifeguard 30% melee resist -> 20% ranged resist.
- harcha
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Re: Update 14825
What are you talking about? Aren't these the current stats? I don't think there is anything wrong with the resist card as long as the unit tags are not changed (thus your old counters still work, even if they are slightly less efficient). Consider that there are plenty of unit conversion cards in the game already. Cbow>skirm, pike>rod, axe>rr, quang/ckn>chang/arq, strelet>musk. These are arguably more significant than the age 4 resistance card.Jets wrote:Armor changes shouldn't exist, devs are trying so hard to innovate with this unit that the whole idea has changed and twisted.
+10% MR, x1.5 HI multiplier, melee charge musketeer seems already fine as a concept, why go further with ranged stats, ranged cards, and armor changes? The lack of goons has turned the caroleans into some weird pokemon evolution unit, from weak musketeer to unmounted goon-like.
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
- Jets
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Re: Update 14825
Those stats i was talking about were my ideal stats for the Carolean, something like a JPK but with a musk ranged attack.
All that trouble for not letting Sweden have goons, or at least make the hakkapellita something similar to a Rifle Rider.
Starts as a musketeer, then you get an unmounted goon with Flintlock card, and at last it's a semi-Urumi charging hybrid with goon ranged attack.harcha wrote:
I don't think there is anything wrong with the resist card as long as the unit tags are not changed (thus your old counters still work, even if they are slightly less efficient). Consider that there are plenty of unit conversion cards in the game already. Cbow>skirm, pike>rod, axe>rr, quang/ckn>chang/arq, strelet>musk. These are arguably more significant than the age 4 resistance card.
All that trouble for not letting Sweden have goons, or at least make the hakkapellita something similar to a Rifle Rider.
- harcha
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Re: Update 14825
The unit is there and it works. No reason to scrap it and make a new one.
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
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