yes, you would know it was recorded when you see haitch typing in the chat about the game he is currently playing. and you dont see the civ picks and lobby stuff. look, you could also pre-record football games and it might be more convenient, it just wouldn't feel right. player psychology is different when you are just playing a rec that will be casted later, vs when you are playing in front of 500+ peoplegibson wrote:So what if you tuned into a game, and asked if this was live or recorded, and someone told you it was live. Would you know the difference? Also it was never unfolding live before your eyes, there was always a delay of at least 2 minutes.vividlyplain wrote:It does for many people. It's inherently less exciting from the outset. For me, I'm instantly disinterested by any event that isn't unfolding live before my eyes. It's just part of the sports/esports experience!gibson wrote:The issue is with spectating in general, it literally doesnt matter if its live or recorded.
we really need a working spectator mode for live casting games. go upvote this on the official forums if you agree
Re: we really need a working spectator mode for live casting games. go upvote this on the official forums if you agree
Re: we really need a working spectator mode for live casting games. go upvote this on the official forums if you agree
there u have your difference, ppl dont like itgibson wrote:So you do understand that there's practically no difference, its just about what people "feel".miggo1999_ wrote:cause again just because you don't feel like it being live matters, most ppl do. It's not the same feeling when you watch an important match casted live, than from a recShow hidden quotes
yeah the UI prob caused lag issues, but the fact he managed to create a UI looking this great and devs taking a lot of changes from EP and yet default to literally a non existing UI is quite bad...
Re: we really need a working spectator mode for live casting games. go upvote this on the official forums if you agree
If someone presented evidence that there was in fact a difference between a live game and a recorded game outside of what people "feel", I'd be interested in hearing it and of course willing to reconsider my opinion. However I dont think you have that which is why you're coming in with this bs.miggo1999_ wrote:well you have obviously made up your mind, so it's pointless arguing here
Re: we really need a working spectator mode for live casting games. go upvote this on the official forums if you agree
i'd bet that lag was caused by peer to peer connections mostly, not the UIknusch wrote:
yeah the UI prob caused lag issues, but the fact he managed to create a UI looking this great and devs taking a lot of changes from EP and yet default to literally a non existing UI is quite bad...
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- Skirmisher
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Re: we really need a working spectator mode for live casting games. go upvote this on the official forums if you agree
well I will say that it's about something intangible, which is how people feel about the experience, and that is what's important at the end of the day, and if you fail to see that there is no point in discussing this.gibson wrote:If someone presented evidence that there was in fact a difference between a live game and a recorded game outside of what people "feel", I'd be interested in hearing it and of course willing to reconsider my opinion. However I dont think you have that which is why you're coming in with this bs.miggo1999_ wrote:well you have obviously made up your mind, so it's pointless arguing here
- vividlyplain
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Re: we really need a working spectator mode for live casting games. go upvote this on the official forums if you agree
I respect your opinion, and maybe part of me wishes I could adopt your mindset.... but I can't and won't.gibson wrote:So what if you tuned into a game, and asked if this was live or recorded, and someone told you it was live. Would you know the difference? Also it was never unfolding live before your eyes, there was always a delay of at least 2 minutes.vividlyplain wrote:It does for many people. It's inherently less exciting from the outset. For me, I'm instantly disinterested by any event that isn't unfolding live before my eyes. It's just part of the sports/esports experience!gibson wrote:The issue is with spectating in general, it literally doesnt matter if its live or recorded.
As for the 2 min delay, the caster was always live and you can tell the difference between then and now. Two minutes isn't a big deal, that's just a couple clicks on the skip fwd button on your remote on the next commercial break.
But if you want the majority of people vicariously involved in an event, it's best to be live or as close to live as possible. Even the Mitoe/Turk series had a bit more of this magic knowing the players were in their series while we were watching.
Re: we really need a working spectator mode for live casting games. go upvote this on the official forums if you agree
I understand that, and I obviously have 0 problem with games being casted live, I just think its stupid to say that "this should be top priority because people don't like the way it feels" over objective things that are broken and not working in the game.miggo1999_ wrote:well I will say that it's about something intangible, which is how people feel about the experience, and that is what's important at the end of the day, and if you fail to see that there is no point in discussing this.gibson wrote:If someone presented evidence that there was in fact a difference between a live game and a recorded game outside of what people "feel", I'd be interested in hearing it and of course willing to reconsider my opinion. However I dont think you have that which is why you're coming in with this bs.miggo1999_ wrote:well you have obviously made up your mind, so it's pointless arguing here
Re: we really need a working spectator mode for live casting games. go upvote this on the official forums if you agree
if the conception of "live-casting" on DE is just using the current in-game spectator mode, then you should be sated if ESOCTV tells you that the games are being played live (whether or whether not they actually are), since DE recorded games and DE in-game specmode are functionally the exact same
am i misunderstanding this? if so, then you should be satisfied if ESOCTV just tells you the games are being played live, even if they may or may not be lying?
am i misunderstanding this? if so, then you should be satisfied if ESOCTV just tells you the games are being played live, even if they may or may not be lying?
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- Skirmisher
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Re: we really need a working spectator mode for live casting games. go upvote this on the official forums if you agree
understandable, but again the way ppl feel about the game is often more important than some objective error. At the end it's not about subjective/objective, but about which change the players will feel more positively impacted by, and I think a properly working live casting tool ranks very high for a lot of members of this community.gibson wrote:I understand that, and I obviously have 0 problem with games being casted live, I just think its stupid to say that "this should be top priority because people don't like the way it feels" over objective things that are broken and not working in the game.miggo1999_ wrote:well I will say that it's about something intangible, which is how people feel about the experience, and that is what's important at the end of the day, and if you fail to see that there is no point in discussing this.Show hidden quotes
Re: we really need a working spectator mode for live casting games. go upvote this on the official forums if you agree
would esoctv show player shit talking, civ counterpicks in the lobby, and ban the players whose game is being casted from talking in the twitch chat during the game? would esoctv somehow also be able to change player psychology, so that it feels like players are playing live?Cometk wrote:if the conception of "live-casting" on DE is just using the current in-game spectator mode, then you should be sated if ESOCTV tells you that the games are being played live (whether or whether not they actually are), since DE recorded games and DE in-game specmode are functionally the exact same
am i misunderstanding this? if so, then you should be satisfied if ESOCTV just tells you the games are being played live, even if they may or may not be lying?
i have very little tournament experience. but i have played a tourney game that was being recorded for later, and i've also played games that were live-casted, and to me the psychological pressure is a lot higher when i know i'm live on display. winning tournaments under these conditions is arguably different from winning recorded tournaments
Re: we really need a working spectator mode for live casting games. go upvote this on the official forums if you agree
see here's the thing: we're talking about two different things now. EP-style live-casting is not what I was referring to. You're talking about an iteration of DE live-casting that currently does not exist.Squamiger wrote:would esoctv show player shit talking, civ counterpicks in the lobby, and ban the players whose game is being casted from talking in the twitch chat during the game? would esoctv somehow also be able to change player psychology, so that it feels like players are playing live?Cometk wrote:if the conception of "live-casting" on DE is just using the current in-game spectator mode, then you should be sated if ESOCTV tells you that the games are being played live (whether or whether not they actually are), since DE recorded games and DE in-game specmode are functionally the exact same
am i misunderstanding this? if so, then you should be satisfied if ESOCTV just tells you the games are being played live, even if they may or may not be lying?
i have very little tournament experience. but i have played a tourney game that was being recorded for later, and i've also played games that were live-casted, and to me the psychological pressure is a lot higher when i know i'm live on display
Re: we really need a working spectator mode for live casting games. go upvote this on the official forums if you agree
Watching a game is not an objective, rational analysis, but a subjective experience - it is by its nature all about how it "feels" for the viewer.gibson wrote:If someone presented evidence that there was in fact a difference between a live game and a recorded game outside of what people "feel", I'd be interested in hearing it and of course willing to reconsider my opinion. However I dont think you have that which is why you're coming in with this bs.miggo1999_ wrote:well you have obviously made up your mind, so it's pointless arguing here
If I know something is live, I "feel" much more hyped. It's similar to watching a VOD of a past stream - it's okay, but just not as exciting. Similarly, watching a live stream of a pre-recorded game is just not as entertaining. And clearly, I'm not the only one who thinks so.
If I try to find a proper explanation for the feeling, it's probably the fact that you know that at this very moment, the players are still struggling for the win, it could still go either way - rather than knowing it is all over already anyway, no matter who you cheer for.
Re: we really need a working spectator mode for live casting games. go upvote this on the official forums if you agree
yes, thats fair. i would think with all that microsoft money they could make something good thoughCometk wrote: see here's the thing: we're talking about two different things now. EP-style live-casting is not what I was referring to. You're talking about an iteration of DE live-casting that currently does not exist.
Re: we really need a working spectator mode for live casting games. go upvote this on the official forums if you agree
So why did it lag at the LAN, and why did games lag with UI and not lag with literally the exact same players?Squamiger wrote:i'd bet that lag was caused by peer to peer connections mostly, not the UIknusch wrote:
yeah the UI prob caused lag issues, but the fact he managed to create a UI looking this great and devs taking a lot of changes from EP and yet default to literally a non existing UI is quite bad...
- Riotcoke
- Retired Contributor
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Re: we really need a working spectator mode for live casting games. go upvote this on the official forums if you agree
The UI caused massive lag.
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Re: we really need a working spectator mode for live casting games. go upvote this on the official forums if you agree
I understand that, I just think that gameplay functionality is more important. I'd rather not have the memory leak, or have my units path properlyAstaroth wrote:Watching a game is not an objective, rational analysis, but a subjective experience - it is by its nature all about how it "feels" for the viewer.gibson wrote:If someone presented evidence that there was in fact a difference between a live game and a recorded game outside of what people "feel", I'd be interested in hearing it and of course willing to reconsider my opinion. However I dont think you have that which is why you're coming in with this bs.miggo1999_ wrote:well you have obviously made up your mind, so it's pointless arguing here
If I know something is live, I "feel" much more hyped. It's similar to watching a VOD of a past stream - it's okay, but just not as exciting. Similarly, watching a live stream of a pre-recorded game is just not as entertaining. And clearly, I'm not the only one who thinks so.
If I try to find a proper explanation for the feeling, it's probably the fact that you know that at this very moment, the players are still struggling for the win, it could still go either way - rather than knowing it is all over already anyway, no matter who you cheer for.
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- Gendarme
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Re: we really need a working spectator mode for live casting games. go upvote this on the official forums if you agree
Yes, and ultimately what decides how people feel is how they feel. And in something thats supposed to give people the feeling of joy, Id argue that how people feel is a pretty important aspect of the experience.gibson wrote:So you do understand that there's practically no difference, its just about what people "feel".miggo1999_ wrote:cause again just because you don't feel like it being live matters, most ppl do. It's not the same feeling when you watch an important match casted live, than from a recShow hidden quotes
Re: we really need a working spectator mode for live casting games. go upvote this on the official forums if you agree
If this is all that it takes, then as long as a streamer doesn't mess up w/r/t the presentation of overlays, it's effectively possible for ESOCTV to host "live-casted games" without any need for the downsides of actually hosting live-casted games. The only thing that needs to be done is to say that the games are being played live, because the current DE spectator function looks the exact same as DE recorded games.Astaroth wrote:Watching a game is not an objective, rational analysis, but a subjective experience - it is by its nature all about how it "feels" for the viewer.gibson wrote:If someone presented evidence that there was in fact a difference between a live game and a recorded game outside of what people "feel", I'd be interested in hearing it and of course willing to reconsider my opinion. However I dont think you have that which is why you're coming in with this bs.miggo1999_ wrote:well you have obviously made up your mind, so it's pointless arguing here
If I know something is live, I "feel" much more hyped. It's similar to watching a VOD of a past stream - it's okay, but just not as exciting. Similarly, watching a live stream of a pre-recorded game is just not as entertaining. And clearly, I'm not the only one who thinks so.
If I try to find a proper explanation for the feeling, it's probably the fact that you know that at this very moment, the players are still struggling for the win, it could still go either way - rather than knowing it is all over already anyway, no matter who you cheer for.
- harcha
- Gendarme
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Re: we really need a working spectator mode for live casting games. go upvote this on the official forums if you agree
@gibson i agree that there are objectively many things to fix about this game, but you must not fall into the trap that just because something is subjective, it is of lesser importance. After all most of us got into AOE3 because it feels good to play it. Emotions have high priority, and thus to me it is understandable why many feel that "live casting availability" is an important goal for devs.
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
Re: we really need a working spectator mode for live casting games. go upvote this on the official forums if you agree
Thats fair, a better way of phrasing is it that I think the way the game plays is more important than the way the game viewsharcha wrote:@gibson i agree that there are objectively many things to fix about this game, but you must not fall into the trap that just because something is subjective, it is of lesser importance. After all most of us got into AOE3 because it feels good to play it. Emotions have high priority, and thus to me it is understandable why many feel that "live casting availability" is an important goal for devs.
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- Gendarme
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Re: we really need a working spectator mode for live casting games. go upvote this on the official forums if you agree
It seems to me like the more glaring issue is the complete lack of functionality of the current UI - which already is a mod right? I think thats a pretty big issue.
Actually the multiplayer UI looks like a beta testing placeholder, and the 'improved' ingame UI still has a shitload of issues too. I feel like the team should hire a professional designet and have him work on this stuff for a year or so.
Actually the multiplayer UI looks like a beta testing placeholder, and the 'improved' ingame UI still has a shitload of issues too. I feel like the team should hire a professional designet and have him work on this stuff for a year or so.
- harcha
- Gendarme
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Re: we really need a working spectator mode for live casting games. go upvote this on the official forums if you agree
@gibson Yeah and that's a valid opinion, same as opposing one. I think it's fair to bring this issue up/remind this to the devs, but in the end they will be the ones who will prioritize their own work.
POC wrote:Also I most likely know a whole lot more than you.
POC wrote:Also as an objective third party, and near 100% accuracy of giving correct information, I would say my opinions are more reliable than yours.
- vividlyplain
- Lancer
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Re: we really need a working spectator mode for live casting games. go upvote this on the official forums if you agree
pure goldRefluxSemantic wrote: Yes, and ultimately what decides how people feel is how they feel. And in something thats supposed to give people the feeling of joy, Id argue that how people feel is a pretty important aspect of the experience.
- fightinfrenchman
- Ninja
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Re: we really need a working spectator mode for live casting games. go upvote this on the official forums if you agree
They've clearly done a great job with that so farharcha wrote:@gibson Yeah and that's a valid opinion, same as opposing one. I think it's fair to bring this issue up/remind this to the devs, but in the end they will be the ones who will prioritize their own work.
Dromedary Scone Mix is not Alone Mix
- Riotcoke
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Re: we really need a working spectator mode for live casting games. go upvote this on the official forums if you agree
Just take the pre-recorded game pill guys, it's not going to change anytime soon.
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