Yabusame need a nerf. Can't be countered in 4+ player games

[ex0dvs]

They effectively have 600hp at range and when combo'd with a mass skirm they can't be beaten. If you go cannon to counter the skirms the cannons get two shot by these bow cav. And you can't go light cav because you get rekt by skirm

[ssaa22]

Yabusame is undervalued because it is a Japanese unit, and if they were in Russia or Ottoman, they would have received a nerf.

[Hazza54321]

Lol

[chris1089]

They effectively have 600hp at range and when combo'd with a mass skirm they can't be beaten. If you go cannon to counter the skirms the cannons get two shot by these bow cav. And you can't go light cav because you get rekt by skirm

Don't hand cavalry counter skirms yet yabusame aren't effective anticav? Surely you just need to use a different counter, rather than the one that yabusame hard counter - i.e cannons. If you have 25 cav attack 50 skirms they will defo do well, the yabusame won't dps them down quickly enough.
Are you sure you haven't just been fighting with smaller army values and are wondering why your cav switch doesn't work?

[howlingwolfpaw]

I deal with these in FFA, the battles are a cross between supremacy where every unit lost hinges on victory or defeat, and between TR when you have so many resources units sacrifices mean little to nothing.
Yabasume are very powerful, but also very costly. Strengths are slightly weaker to cav than a dragoon, but stronger vs artillery. Also decent HP with a huge 50% resist.

You can out skirm them, since the pop space is ineffective vs most everything else. hoping they will want to stop training such expensive units. (always have some balance of an army though, you do not want a single wave of cav to wipe you out)

or go super aggressive with melee style with cav and pike (rods work really well) like units to push them back hoping you will get a contact without too much sacrifice. Since both Yumi and Yabasume are archer untis are not as effective kiting so this how I like to play it.

I still like cannons, they make for good baited targets to draw the enemy in (hence the melee game). Cannon sniping with goons occurs a lot too and are much cheaper... I think overall this tactic needs to be nerfed to make cannons more valuable, and be most efficient to counter with other cannons. As it should be in my opinion. There just seems to be so much lazy play where not making cannons is just as effective or more so, considering the packing and travel time and limited army mobility to protect them that cannons have as a trade off to using them.

[ex0dvs]

Well this game was specifically against Dutch and Japan.
My teammate and I were British and Dutch we had already taken out all of Japans wonders but they still managed to beat us from 15000 score below.
Dutch was able mass goon and skirm and japan only massed cav archer. The early game was fine but once eco was maxed it didn't feel like there was much we could do.

So maybe this match up was just unlucky if we didn't finish it off with a very early push

[chris1089]

Longbows? And your ecos should keep up fine, particularly if Japan has lost all the wonders. Is this playing out in age 3 or 4?

[howlingwolfpaw]

Well this game was specifically against Dutch and Japan.
My teammate and I were British and Dutch we had already taken out all of Japans wonders but they still managed to beat us from 15000 score below.
Dutch was able mass goon and skirm and japan only massed cav archer. The early game was fine but once eco was maxed it didn't feel like there was much we could do.

So maybe this match up was just unlucky if we didn't finish it off with a very early push

keep in mind 150 score (translated to RE specs) is not much lower at all, and Japan bottom outs at a lower score than euro civs (I think this is still true?) so its deceptively higher than it looks.

How did he defeat you both with only archers? they have such little siege power.... Did you wall your economy off? were you out of place with your villagers?

[ex0dvs]

This was an end of age 3 to early 4 with max eco as brit + dutch near the end of 3
I had switched to full longbows + goon but as soon as they mixed in just a small amount flaming arrows the bows were shredded and then our culvs were two shot again by the yabusame.
Perhaps it was just down to large skill gap but we had kept japan down to around 45 vills with no wonders and they still managed to maintain nearly 130 military pop while fighting against our full ecos

Maybe next time I just stick with musk and cannon so the musk can go into melee when the cav archers go to take out the cannon

[ex0dvs]

That being said I'm feeling less salty now that I've had a complain

[_NT_sven]

hussars is the way to go coz that 50% RR and their actually poor damage to cav

[gibson]

This is like a riotcoke thread

[hidden_blaze]

Why do British team players tend to label anything as op while playing one of the absolute top tier team civs themselves?

I can hardly imagine yabusame riders being too strong, they hardly have a place in the meta at all. They're basically bad against literally anything except artillery and maybe ranged units to a point where they can sponge some of their damage. Also they should be far too expensive to maintain in larger numbers.

Training a lot of yabusame and win sounds like something that should not happen under normal circumstances.

[stanleywinston]

This is a joke right? xD

[Mitoe]

Well to be honest Yabusame are probably quite a decent unit if you send both of their upgrade cards. Plus in team games you may benefit from some team upgrades depending on what they are. A few native settlements also have upgrades for archer type units.

[Le Hussard sur le toit]

Well to be honest Yabusame are probably quite a decent unit if you send both of their upgrade cards. Plus in team games you may benefit from some team upgrades depending on what they are. A few native settlements also have upgrades for archer type units.

I was wondering about that. On Florida with the two native TP upgrades they may be quite strong. Those upgrades also benefits longbows though...

[onfiregun17]

On this same note maybe we should nerf rajput and arsonists.

[helln00]

Well to be honest Yabusame are probably quite a decent unit if you send both of their upgrade cards. Plus in team games you may benefit from some team upgrades depending on what they are. A few native settlements also have upgrades for archer type units.

If Im not wrong swede have a team range cav card which increases range by 1. 19 range yabusame could be very fun and OP

[howlingwolfpaw]

This was an end of age 3 to early 4 with max eco as brit + dutch near the end of 3
I had switched to full longbows + goon but as soon as they mixed in just a small amount flaming arrows the bows were shredded and then our culvs were two shot again by the yabusame.
Perhaps it was just down to large skill gap but we had kept japan down to around 45 vills with no wonders and they still managed to maintain nearly 130 military pop while fighting against our full ecos

Maybe next time I just stick with musk and cannon so the musk can go into melee when the cav archers go to take out the cannon

One thing to consider,

Units with really high range resist do not need as much economy as they do not die very fast to ranged fire, so the amount needed to continually reinforce is less because of this efficiency. They may not be killing as much quickly but are not dying as fast either.

That's what makes ports in TR so strong, is that the cassadors resist so much and the dragoons have so much range they die less frequently keeping that economy very stable.

Some good reasons to never get over zealous and think the game is won simply by a score. Its really the kill ratios that matter, if someone can trade 2:1 kills, then that is basically like doubling their score, and halving the opponents.

[aaryngend]

Well to be honest Yabusame are probably quite a decent unit if you send both of their upgrade cards. Plus in team games you may benefit from some team upgrades depending on what they are. A few native settlements also have upgrades for archer type units.

If Im not wrong swede have a team range cav card which increases range by 1. 19 range yabusame could be very fun and OP

Yes they do, I have it in pretty much every team Swe deck but I noticed that basically no one else uses it. Feeling special here

[Garja]

Well it's a useless card to be fair

[aaryngend]

Well it's a useless card to be fair

Wut? How? I bet many of your allies who mainly go for ranged cav will love the +1 range and 5% speed. It's what wins fights, all for the cost of a single card in your deck. I'm sure Swedes can spare a card slot for this nice little buff.

[Hazza54321]

i think its kinda irrelevant, swedens deck is stacked anyway

[aaryngend]

i think its kinda irrelevant, swedens deck is stacked anyway

Me thinks this is a secret red herring by you to downplay the hidden strength of that card so Swedes don't get even more obnoxious as they already are.

Looking at it again, Swedes really can't spare a lot of card slots for fluff, there are so many cards I simply don't wanna miss out on.
I wonder if Cronstedt Reforms is used outside of Treaty.

[howlingwolfpaw]

Well it's a useless card to be fair

Wut? How? I bet many of your allies who mainly go for ranged cav will love the +1 range and 5% speed. It's what wins fights, all for the cost of a single card in your deck. I'm sure Swedes can spare a card slot for this nice little buff.

That actually does sounds like a good card, you would be able to take any dragoon fight and out micro them, and its a team card?

hmm.... maybe no one wants to talk it up because that would make swede wreck most combos with good micro.

Just needs a high tier player to start using it