General forum about Age of Empires 3 DE. Please post strategy threads, recorded games, user-created content and tech support threads in their respective forum.
Spain MaxH
Crossbow
Posts: 5

16 Feb 2021, 15:42

Considering pikes have almost the same resource/sec cost as musketeers, they seem pretty weak even against cavalry. Are they considered balanced?
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India Challenger_Marco
Jaeger
Posts: 2133
ESO: challenger_marco

16 Feb 2021, 15:47

??
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India Challenger_Marco
Jaeger
Posts: 2133
ESO: challenger_marco

16 Feb 2021, 15:48

@MaxH how dare you underestimate pikis ,piki piki ez winni @Aizamk explain to this guy how it's done.
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Malaysia Aizamk
Pro Player
ESOC WarChiefs Classic 2017
Posts: 1307
Location: ded

16 Feb 2021, 16:01

speedy spammable super powerful piki
oranges.
France Le Hussard sur le toit
Lancer
Posts: 906
ESO: LeHussardsurletoit

16 Feb 2021, 16:06

They are cheap, provide a lot of siege and combined well with xbows due to their easy macro. So not a great unit but one that is really useful in many situation and thus does not need to be buffed.
diarouga : "Which is more important, strategy or mechanics? Build orders, or cute hussar micro ?"
Hazza : "Don't know but my hussar micro is sexy as fuck."
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European Union Scroogie
Lancer
Posts: 737
ESO: Scroogie
GameRanger ID: 10056919

16 Feb 2021, 18:05

Piki should have extra melee range like meteors!
Me being slightly ahead vs H2O: Image
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France ǝɯɐuɹǝsn
Skirmisher
Posts: 165

16 Feb 2021, 18:10

pike are 80 ress musk are 100, pikes got a nice speed, better siege attack than musk, better against cav (not only because of the damage but because of the speed, they are faster than the cav when it get hand-hit if i'm not wrong)
France Le Hussard sur le toit
Lancer
Posts: 906
ESO: LeHussardsurletoit

16 Feb 2021, 18:10

Scroogie wrote:Piki should have extra melee range like meteors!


All units with a pike/halbard should have +1 range.
diarouga : "Which is more important, strategy or mechanics? Build orders, or cute hussar micro ?"
Hazza : "Don't know but my hussar micro is sexy as fuck."
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No Flag Squamiger
Howdah
Posts: 1007
ESO: Squamiger

17 Feb 2021, 01:08

rods should -1 range because of their tiny swords then
We renounce everything except victory.
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San Marino jesus3
Jaeger
Posts: 2046

17 Feb 2021, 01:15

Thank you for this thread and therefore reminding us of the greatness of piki. You did it in a smart way and I'm sure this fully reflects your intentions

:flowers: :flowers: :flowers:
Image
No Flag helln00
Lancer
Posts: 764
ESO: helln00

17 Feb 2021, 01:16

Le Hussard sur le toit wrote:
Scroogie wrote:Piki should have extra melee range like meteors!


All units with a pike/halbard should have +1 range.

Does this mean changdao gets a weird +0.5 range due to being a rod/halb hybrid?
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Canada Mitoe
Advanced Theory Craftsman
EWTNWC LAN Top 8EPL Reigning Champs
Posts: 5120
ESO: Mitoe
GameRanger ID: 346407

17 Feb 2021, 01:20

The extra speed compared to a musketeer is pretty good, and cover mode is good utility too.
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United States of America _H2O
ESOC Business Team
Donator 06
Posts: 3381
ESO: _H2O

17 Feb 2021, 01:30

Speed and siege per cost.
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Italy Garja
ESOC Maps Team
Donator 02
Posts: 8838
ESO: Garja

17 Feb 2021, 01:46

Scroogie wrote:Piki should have extra melee range like meteors!

Pretty sure the spear animation does provide a little extra range compared to musks.
Image Image Image
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Argentina Jets
Dragoon
Posts: 222
ESO: SsJetstream

17 Feb 2021, 04:19

Squamiger wrote:rods should -1 range because of their tiny swords then

Rods should be shock infantry because of their tiny swords.
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Latvia harcha
Jaeger
Posts: 2973
ESO: hatamoto_samurai

17 Feb 2021, 06:28

Garja wrote:
Scroogie wrote:Piki should have extra melee range like meteors!

Pretty sure the spear animation does provide a little extra range compared to musks.

It's not that it provides range, it's just so much better than the musketeer animation.
princeofcarthage wrote:remember Prince warned about it years ago
France Le Hussard sur le toit
Lancer
Posts: 906
ESO: LeHussardsurletoit

17 Feb 2021, 08:51

helln00 wrote:
Le Hussard sur le toit wrote:
Scroogie wrote:Piki should have extra melee range like meteors!


All units with a pike/halbard should have +1 range.

Does this mean changdao gets a weird +0.5 range due to being a rod/halb hybrid?


Do changdao have lances ? No, they have swords. Swords are shorter than lances [citation needed] so they should have a shorter range.
diarouga : "Which is more important, strategy or mechanics? Build orders, or cute hussar micro ?"
Hazza : "Don't know but my hussar micro is sexy as fuck."
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Latvia harcha
Jaeger
Posts: 2973
ESO: hatamoto_samurai

17 Feb 2021, 08:54

If you're gonna buff pikes, changs definitely don't need any buffs. But I really don't think pikes need buffs at all. Aiz is already OP.
princeofcarthage wrote:remember Prince warned about it years ago
Vietnam duckzilla
Howdah
Posts: 1609

17 Feb 2021, 09:37

Did pikeboom. Lost game. Piki weak, plz buff
Whatever is written above: this is no financial advice.

Quo usque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientia nostra?
Ceterum censeo Norvegiam habet participes eius divitiis pauperes in hoc mundo.
Spain MaxH
Crossbow
Posts: 5

17 Feb 2021, 12:20

jesus3 wrote:Thank you for this thread and therefore reminding us of the greatness of piki. You did it in a smart way and I'm sure this fully reflects your intentions

:flowers: :flowers: :flowers:


Not sure what you mean. I didn't have an ulterior motive when I created this thread. It just seemed that they were weak based on their stats and cost. Now I know they clearly aren't.
No Flag helln00
Lancer
Posts: 764
ESO: helln00

17 Feb 2021, 12:25

Le Hussard sur le toit wrote:
helln00 wrote:
Show hidden quotes

Does this mean changdao gets a weird +0.5 range due to being a rod/halb hybrid?


Do changdao have lances ? No, they have swords. Swords are shorter than lances [citation needed] so they should have a shorter range.


its about the length of a zweihander, so either give changdaos aoe damage or give doppel range or do both
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Argentina Jets
Dragoon
Posts: 222
ESO: SsJetstream

17 Feb 2021, 12:49

Yeah pikes are decent but they get a huge amount of techs available from the native tps as well as crossbows do. It's just not worth the effort tho.

Most of them revolve around melee atk, siege atk, archer atk, sadly there isn't enough maps with Mayas/Mapuches on It. Mayas give %20 HP to HI and Mapuches a 50% siege buff.
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San Marino jesus3
Jaeger
Posts: 2046

17 Feb 2021, 13:03

MaxH wrote:
jesus3 wrote:Thank you for this thread and therefore reminding us of the greatness of piki. You did it in a smart way and I'm sure this fully reflects your intentions

:flowers: :flowers: :flowers:


Not sure what you mean. I didn't have an ulterior motive when I created this thread. It just seemed that they were weak based on their stats and cost. Now I know they clearly aren't.


Well, as you know now, Pikes are actually pretty good for their cost. I was joking around a little since we had many complaints about random units over past weeks, Piki was just the icing on the cake :P
Image
No Flag Astaroth
Lancer
Posts: 836

17 Feb 2021, 13:09

Pikes are a bit weak compared to other units, but it fits their role in the game overall.

In terms of the overall game design, "archaic" units like xbows and pikes are mostly supposed to be phased out after age2 (with a few exceptions ofc). This also makes sense historically (I know the game is not really accurate historically, but it's still a good step).

In terms of the role pikes have in the different civs' rosters, their strength is adequate. All civs that can train pikes either only use them as a stop-gap for age3 (these civs are more oriented towards the fortress age), such as Germany and Dutch, and/or have a musketeer alternative (Fre, Brit etc.).

Overall, pikes have a relatively niche role, but can be situationally useful for siege (also vs. Japan), as part of a xbow or lbow/pike comp or later on as an alternative to a plantation transition. Aside from that, they are not supposed to be a one-purpose unit that makes up the bulk of your army.
France Le Hussard sur le toit
Lancer
Posts: 906
ESO: LeHussardsurletoit

17 Feb 2021, 13:47

Basically all civs with pikes train them regularly (not in every game every MU but in a significant number of them). This is a much better state in the meta than halbs for example.
diarouga : "Which is more important, strategy or mechanics? Build orders, or cute hussar micro ?"
Hazza : "Don't know but my hussar micro is sexy as fuck."

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